How important is investing in a good hifi rack - Page 2

One other option would be to use a flimsy rack and record to PC the analog output from a given setup and then repeat with Mr Sturdy rack and compare the differences, if there are big differences they would show up in the waveforms ?

Other than that it would have to be er dbt

I would also say it depends on the environment of the listening room. My room is a second story study in a brick house built in the 1960s. My interior walls, and the second floor vibrate palpably when the AC runs. And it runs a lot in south Alabama.

I went with the "flexi-rack" which is a popular DIY audio rack you can find on the net.

The rack you found looks to have cost a lot more than the rack I "overbuilt".

I would think that rack would be great. Certainly you could clean it up, or even consider getting it refinished. Sanded, or Sand Blasted, and repainted, it would look new if you wanted. I certainly would have used that rack over anything DIY. The spikes make it work well on carpet, if you have a hard floor, you need some sort of cups for the spikes to rest on, or you will damage your floor.

Solid state components are theoretically affected by vibration. But we're talking extreme levels of vibration, such as those you may experience if you are firing off rounds in a M1 Abrams tank.

For a rack, you just want something stable, allow your equipment to breath, and of course, looks.

Of course, a turntable is highly susceptible to vibration as it will pick any any sound of people walking by or even the speaker's bass.

A more refined system will make subtle differences more clearly audible. I don't know if there are any scientific tests out. Frankly, I don't care. I trust my ears. Just like I don't need a college student releasing white papers to tell me Halley Barry is much hotter than Jolie. My eyes are are the guide

You have two options:

Trusting your ears. If it doesn't do anything for your system, then don't bother with it. If it helps, then benefit from it like most people do in high end audio.

Or you can go the scientific path. I'd recommend looking outside of this forum. Find a scientific forum where people actually understand science. It would be recommended that you get a degree so that you can at least get a basic foundation and verify if the test was done correct and what holes may have tainted it. It's not as simple as it would seem.

After all that, be prepared to find opposition to the tests that are run which will make things muddy again and possibly leave you with student loans, wasted time, and lack of trust in your own ears and the majority of audiophiles that have been around the block. It should take less than a decade and only about $50K in student loans.

All of us that hear clear differences as audiophiles could all be blatant liars trying start a vibration conspiracy - or are all fooled by what audio dealers tell us. Nothing but brainwashed drones that actually change the way we process what we hear... you never know

If you are going to go with the scientific route, one would immediately refer to that three letter acronym beginning with "D" which is probably the preferred method by the scientific community to demonstrate audible differences. You don't need to understand any science behind microphonics to execute such a test. Just have two systems, one on a solid metal Target stand and one on a rickity Ikea special, and go at it. This is not about "Angelina vs Barry" which is obviously a preferential choice between two aesthetics, this is about whether there is a detectable difference that one should take into account.

Personally I don't believe that any properly designed solid stated component would have audible differences placed on glass versus wood. It just comes down my disbelief that microphonics as a phenomenon that used to affect tube electronics is an issue anymore. It's not just a matter of having a system that reveals those difference, microphonics really should not be an issue with solid state components in audible frequency range. I believe if you heard a difference, it could have been due to any number of other factors (power supply fluctuations, current limitations, bad connections, poorly constructed circuit board). My advice to anybody purchasing a stand is just to make sure the stand is stable to avoid physical damage to the components, and make sure that the component isn't obviously rocking or moving which could shake loose connections.

Is it a 2-way issue? Could vibrations from SS equipment be transmitted to a turntable and mess up the SQ?

This I think we could measure with a vibration meter, like the kind they use to test equipment in computer rooms, etc. They cost > $500 ... there's a big dealer here in NJ and I have asked him to alert me if he gets a used one or B-stock or something ... and to teach me how to use it.

I would love to measure the vibration of equipment, before and after "proper" racking.

People suggest hardwood, like Maple. Expensive! I have been using Douglas Fir, a softwood, and have had very reasonable, but still nice and thick, open-back shelves made for me -- I find them perfect.

I do have one glass table that I have to use to hold amps, so I did get maple blocks -- but not from an audio store, but a kid's play blocks wholesale place -- a buck each! I gave a bunch away at the last NJ meet and people love 'em.

Hey they protect the glass from scratches even if the vibration damping part is snake oil!

If you are goingto trust your ears, you have to take your eyes out of it. If your ears solely make the decision, then why do you need to see it for a determination.

My test would involve putting an amp behind a soundproof wall and playing selections while having a power sander applied directly to the unit, sans sandpaper. Power sanders absolutely vibrate. If a listener can tell when the power sander is on, then I'd accept that vibration is audible.

If a listener (or several of them) could not tell the difference between a power sander and no power sander, then it would be safe to assume that the claimed "benefits" of racks, Shakti ztones, Mpingo discs, etc. mostly lie in the profit margins of the manufacturer.

By the way, a lot of you are being sold a bill of goods when it comes to fancy hardwoods. Go price them out by the boardfoot. A thick maple platform for a monoblock might run $20-$30 in wood. Labor for a flat slab is minimal - joinery is where the time comes in. And no, I am not talking about gluing sticks of wood together, clamping until dry and putting that through a power planer. That's a cakewalk. I know, I've done it myself. Apply a sprayed finish and your labor isn't much.

Can't anyone else see the correlation between price and snake oil?

Always, always the more dubious the claim, the bigger the profit margin.

Is it really that difficult to believe that people put together inexpensive parts, charge a huge markup and make wild-eyed claims while insisting that anyone who wants to run tests is a "hater" or "closed-minded"?

The sellers of such products put on a serious face in public, but they are more than likely making fun of their customers behind closed doors.

This well written response makes the most (or least) sense to me with the least (or most) amount of information possible written by someone who may (or may not be) competely sick of this "debate".
Borderline genious!

To think that you need a formal education or degree in a field to be able to understand something is quite silly. Lack of a formal education or degree does not equate to a lack of knowledge.

While a formal education or degree is not the only way to obtain knowledge about a subject, it does serve as a valuable quality control and does significantly increase the probability that the person offering the knowledge knows what he or she is talking about. While it is true that people without education can and do have knowledge about a subject, there are many without an education on a subject think that they do know things that are not true. Visit any bar or diner, or some forums as examples.