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Is Vibration Control helpful with Headphone systems? - Page 3

post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post
You need mass to damp which is why it's called mass damp... ugh never mind.
That's incorrect.

It's called a tuned mass damper because it involves mass AND damping. Two different things.

A tuned mass damper is a resonant system which, like most every other resonant system involves a mass, a spring, and, in any real world resonant system, damping.

The mass of the mass and the stiffness of the spring combine to establish the resonant frequency. The Q of that resonance (i.e. its peakiness) is determined by the damping.

Damping is a loss mechanism, either parasitic or intentional. Damping is that which ultimately converts mechanical energy into heat. Such as the friction within a real world spring.

The mass, spring and damping of a mechanical resonant system models electrically as inductance, capacitance and resistance. The inductive reactance of the inductor and the capacitive reactance of the capacitor establish the resonant frequency of the circuit. The resistive element in the circuit is the damping and establishes the Q of the resonance.

So again, adding mass does not add damping. Mass is not a loss mechanism. It is an energy storage mechanism. Adding mass will only change the resonant frequency. To change the damping, you need to add a loss mechanism which converts the mechanical energy into heat. And that's precisely what damping materials such as Sorbothane are designed to do.

Quote:
All major designers use spikes except the stuff you find at best buy for $40. I guess they got it right with plastic and rubber feet while high end designers are confuse?
Just because something comes with a high price tag doesn't mean the designer necessarily knew what they were doing. Some high end designers are confused. Or at the very least cynical and use spikes because that's what some have come to expect on "high end" products.

Quote:
Maybe you can enlighten them with your very own law of physics.
Don't need my very own laws of physics. The existing ones are perfectly fine. If you'd like some enlightenment, just go back and actually read the article you cited. If you're still confused, go back to the basics and read up on the Harmonic oscillator entry.

You'll find that mass and damping are not one and the same. They are two entirely different things.

Quote:
As for me, I'm done here
Then don't expect to learn anything.

k
post #32 of 66
Koyaan is completely right
post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
Mass doesn't dampen. Mass just lowers the resonant frequency. Which could be a good or bad thing depending on the situation.

k
I have heard improvements up to 100 lbs of mass damping, background got blacker the more books I added! It moves the resonant frequency under the Hz headphones go to? Maybe if a speaker system and subwoofer is used, more books are required? I will switch into a speaker system and acquire a library card, based on my calculations, maybe 600 lbs of books will be ok, what do you think?



post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
I have heard improvements up to 100 lbs of mass damping, background got blacker the more books I added! It moves the resonant frequency under the Hz headphones go to? Maybe if a speaker system and subwoofer is used, more books are required? I will switch into a speaker system and acquire a library card, based on my calculations, maybe 600 lbs of books will be ok, what do you think?



this wouldn't happen to be a shot of your new drug lair that I've heard you talk so much about ... would it ???
post #35 of 66
The only damping I've tried, so far, in my rig, is to buy some Herbies Tube Dampers for a Stax 007t. There was a not insignificant increase in bass as a result of attaching them, as in similar to the effect of turning the bass knob on a hi-fi amp up something like 50%. I am thinking of trying Vibrapods experimentally and happy to accept a $25 loss if they do nothing for my gear.

Interestingly, Virtual Dynamics has a video on how to DIY your own Power 3 cable, encouraging the user to do a before-and-after adding the damping material to find out for themselves the effect it has.
post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergman2 View Post
this wouldn't happen to be a shot of your new drug lair that I've heard you talk so much about ... would it ???
No, that was a year ago when I used dCS Elgar Plus DAC, I am using EMU0404 USB now. I don't have pics but I will take now!
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
I have heard improvements up to 100 lbs of mass damping, background got blacker the more books I added! It moves the resonant frequency under the Hz headphones go to? Maybe if a speaker system and subwoofer is used, more books are required? I will switch into a speaker system and acquire a library card, based on my calculations, maybe 600 lbs of books will be ok, what do you think?
You've got those black cylindrical things under the equipment. I can't remember what exactly they are. If I remember right they have a ball or substance in them that would absorb and dampen. So that would cover the spring dampening part if they're doing their job right. And you've got the mass. Seems to be in line with what Koyaan I. Sqatsi is covering.
post #38 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich View Post
You've got those black cylindrical things under the equipment. I can't remember what exactly they are. If I remember right they have a ball or substance in them that would absorb and dampen. So that would cover the spring dampening part if they're doing their job right. And you've got the mass. Seems to be in line with what Koyaan I. Sqatsi is covering.
They are Magix magnetic levitation feet, the disc on top of the cylinder is completely floating in air after the component has been properly balanced on top of the discs. I have found that 4 Magix sounds better than 3 because of better balance. I did a vibration test with a transformer...with 3 Magix the vibrations leaked through the sides of the Magix because the discs weren't fully floating. The more Magix you use the better balance you get.
post #39 of 66
Thread Starter 
Is that system with the books on top a purely headphone system? Do you hear the reduced noise on your headphones, or are you using speakers?

Thanks all for your comments, but please note that I started this thread for a discussion of vibration control and headphones specifically. I wrote to the company of the person interviewed in the article cited and asked them about the use of their products with headphones. I will post any reply that I get.
post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirmalanow View Post
Is that system with the books on top a purely headphone system? Do you hear the reduced noise on your headphones, or are you using speakers?

Thanks all for your comments, but please note that I started this thread for a discussion of vibration control and headphones specifically. I wrote to the company of the person interviewed in the article cited and asked them about the use of their products with headphones. I will post any reply that I get.
Yes, it is for headphones, I have never tried a loudspeaker system (yet).
I am using K1000 but I can hear the differences even with HD590 because those headphones emphasize the high frequencies, however, with HD590 I don't hear any resolution improvements like I do with K1000.
post #41 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
No, that was a year ago when I used dCS Elgar Plus DAC, I am using EMU0404 USB now. I don't have pics but I will take now!
post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post
You need mass to damp which is why it's called mass damp... ugh never mind.

How'd I allow myself to get drawn into this kind of silliness? All major designers use spikes except the stuff you find at best buy for $40. I guess they got it right with plastic and rubber feet while high end designers are confuse? Maybe you can enlighten them with your very own law of physics. As for me, I'm done here
I'm not trying to argue about this tweak but you underestimate the importance of perception for higher priced gear, this was already mentioned by someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Oh man, all that standard paper is probably having a negative effect on the sound. You need to get hundreds of pounds of ERS paper!
post #43 of 66
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick82 View Post
Yes, it is for headphones, I have never tried a loudspeaker system (yet).
I am using K1000 but I can hear the differences even with HD590 because those headphones emphasize the high frequencies, however, with HD590 I don't hear any resolution improvements like I do with K1000.
Thanks for letting me know. That is interesting that it is different with the K1000s, although I doubt the sound from the K1000s is doing much to vibrate your equipment, and the HD590s are open also, so they must leak a little sound.
So on both phones you hear less background noise, but the K1000s also have more resolution?

I like your willingness to experiment, and what an inexpensive tweak if you have books lying around.
post #44 of 66
Patrick - why not try using something heavy that doesn't take up so much space. Like a slab of metal or something? Sandbag? Leadshot?

Back when I was starting out in high end audio many years ago, I put sandbags on all my components and it made a very noticeable difference. It was for a speaker set up.
post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirmalanow View Post
Thanks for letting me know. That is interesting that it is different with the K1000s, although I doubt the sound from the K1000s is doing much to vibrate your equipment, and the HD590s are open also, so they must leak a little sound.
So on both phones you hear less background noise, but the K1000s also have more resolution?

I like your willingness to experiment, and what an inexpensive tweak if you have books lying around.
Yes, the K1000 are more revealing and shows increased resolution from top to bottom when you use vibration control. With other headphones it makes it sound warmer and quieter, little muddy too, but it's because of the headphone pads reflecting the sound waves. When you reduce the vibrations it makes the component sound more neutral.
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