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Der Ring des Nibelungen Appreciation and Recommendation Thread

post #1 of 15
9/13/09 at 3:19am
Thread Starter 
I can't believe the last music thread with Wagner in the title is well over a year old. Absolutely disgraceful!

I've had von Karajan's cycle in my collection for a long time, but never listened through it because of its epic length - I could barely keep my headphones on long enough to listen through one scene!

I do most of my listening with speakers now, and am slowly in the process of discovering new music - namely, Mahler and Wagner. Reading (not finished yet) The Perfect Wagnerite pushed me to start seriously listening to the Ring. Mind-blowing and brilliant!

Due to my tendency to listen very slowly, I am still in the first two scenes in Das Rhinegold. It's not easy to balance listening to the music, reading the original German libretto, reading the English translation, and trying to understand the true meaning of the drama (the last would not even be possible for me, without reading The Perfect Wagnerite).

I have also sampled Krauss's and Knappertbusch's recordings, but their sound quality is too poor. I also actually prefer Karajan's Das Rhinegold performance. The Rhinemaidens have the right light and whimsical mood. Alberic part is delivered with tragic menace (especially with his rhythmic emphasis). Loge's style quite amusing, and fits his his part as a cunning trickster.

Anyway, this post is getting long, so, let's post appreciation for the Ring and recommendations

p.s. I must confess that I am guilty of occasionally skipping to "the good stuff." The final acts of Die Walküre, Siegfried, and Götterdämmerung are pure ecstasy! Love also these leitmotivs from Das Rhinegold: nature, Rhinegold, Valhalla, Rhinedaughter's part, the Giants, and the mining "sound-effect"
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post #2 of 15
9/13/09 at 3:32am
I think the best way to get into the Ring is probably with a DVD video performance instead of an audio CD. Subtitles help a lot with following the libretto. Kupfer/Barenboim or Chéreau/Boulez would be my recommendations, and they are often cheaper than the highly (over)rated Solti/Karajan CDs. That is, of course, provided that you are willing to have an open mind and not go "BOOOO!!! It doesn't follow what Wagner wanted!!!" with some of the stagings.

Then as for audio CDs, besides the Solti set which everyone will recommend there's also the Bohm's set which I highly recommend you to check out too.
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post #3 of 15
9/13/09 at 3:36am
Thread Starter 
I briefly read about Boulez's interpretation. It seems to be quite consistent with the spirit of the Perfect Wagnerite On the other hand, I watched the immolation scene from Boulez's DVD ( YouTube - Götterdämmerung, act three ) and it just felt awkward. Guess I'm spoiled by modern special effects At this point, I'd rather let my imagination paint the scene!

How are the recordings' sound qualities?
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post #4 of 15
9/13/09 at 1:09pm
Quote:
It's not easy to balance listening to the music, reading the original German libretto, reading the English translation, and trying to understand the true meaning of the drama (the last would not even be possible for me, without reading The Perfect Wagnerite).
Don't try to read too much into the "true" meaning of the Ring. Part of the problem is that too many people have their own ideas of what it is about. After listening and studying it for about 20 years now, I'm not really sure there's more to it than what's on the surface.
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post #5 of 15
9/13/09 at 1:37pm
i have about 10 complete rings. haven't listened to them in a while though. find wagner a bit heavy lately.

cooke's introduction to the ring, which tracks the thematic motifs, is recommended.



Amazon.com: An Introduction to Der Ring des Nibelungen: Deryck Cooke, Georg Solti, Wiener Philharmoniker, Anita Valkki, Berit Lindholm, Birgit Nilsson, Brigitte Fassbaender, Christa Ludwig, Claire Watson, Claudia Hellmann, Dame Gwyneth Jones, Dietric
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post #6 of 15
9/13/09 at 1:43pm
That's absolutely right! I get so tired of people giving their analysis and interpreting what Wagner was saying. It's just a good story with universal and perennial truths like all good epics. Just wallow in it and love it.

I agree that for beginners DVD is the way to go. You can't "hear" the music when you're reading a libretto. But the captions on DVD help a lot. I have three DVD sets now, and I have to say the Barenboim is probably the best overall. The Boulez is musically sound, but the staging will put off and confuse many, and the video transfer sure shows its age.

For CD, I used to prefer Karajan, mostly for the playing of the Berlin Philharmonic. But in the past few years, the RCA set with Marek Jankowski has won me over. The Karl Bohm set is a winner, too, especially in the ridiculously low-priced boxed set of Wagner's 10 greatest from Decca.
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post #7 of 15
9/13/09 at 2:16pm
Thread Starter 
But the drama does not make sense by its face value. I haven't committed to a specific interpretation - I've read only one good one. Also, it really enhances the drama of otherwise "boring" scenes.
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post #8 of 15
9/13/09 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scytheavatar View Post
I think the best way to get into the Ring is probably with a DVD video performance instead of an audio CD. Subtitles help a lot with following the libretto.
This is a very important bit of advice for any opera..........

but especially true for Wagner Ring........get a good DVD version with subtitles and see what scences are depicted by various arias. Then future CD versions will be much more appreciated as you have the visual scences in memory. Opera is an audio & visual presentation
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post #9 of 15
9/13/09 at 6:11pm
PSmith08.... Calling PSmith08!

I've seen two Ring cycles at the Lyric in Chicago. Definately see it before you dive into listening to it.
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post #10 of 15
9/13/09 at 6:25pm
I'd agree: DVD is the best way to come to an opera, always assuming that you can't get to see it live. To be honest, I don't listen to opera very much on recordings and I would always see it live if possible.

With The Ring, though, you really need to see the narrative through before you see it live, or even listen to it on a recording. The scenes are colossally long in some cases, and listening to two characters have an abstract philosophical debate for an hour without a pretty good idea of what is going on is a recipe for serious boredom. The problem is only exacerbated with Wagner because the ear focuses in strongly on the leitmotivs (once you've learnt to spot them in the first place) and this means that scenes can seem very repetitive.

Sitting through a Wagner opera from beginning to end is a very different experience because the timescale makes sense of the protracted length of the scenes, and of the abbreviated length of the musical themes.

So: maybe leave Wagner off the stereo and reserve it for times when you can give it your full attention on television and/or stage.
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post #11 of 15
9/13/09 at 9:33pm
Thread Starter 
Hmm, guess I'll cave and get the DVDs when I find a good deal. I'm pretty sure I have a good grasp of the first two scenes of Das Rheingold without having seen any of it

edit: I got to sample Solti's cycle. It is indeed excellent. The vocals in general have more body to their sound; and the overall presentation seems to be more dramatic. Got a good chuckle out of Alberic's amplified laughter when he ran off with the Rhinegold
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post #12 of 15
9/13/09 at 9:49pm

Just checking in with the standards...

I'm not a giant Wagner fan so I have the "standard" Levine/Met DVDs and Solti CD set. I find both to be excellent but I honestly don't have much with which to compare...
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post #13 of 15
9/22/09 at 1:27am
Thread Starter 
Quick update. I've been switching between Solti and Karajan recordings of Das Rheingold. Both are excellent. Quick comparison (sorry, didn't actually look up who played what part):
  • Wotan - slightly prefer Solti's, a bit more powerful singing
  • Fasolt - definitely prefer Karajan's, I feel more longing in the singing. Probably my favorite part in the first two scenes.
  • Loge - prefer Karajan's, seems to be more like a cunning character
  • Rhinemaidens - prefer Karajan's again, sounds more carefree
  • Alberich - about the same, Solti's has probably the better voice, but Karajan's has a nice sense of rhythm
  • Orchestra - about the same, Solti's is more dramatic, Karajan is more laid back. The latter's advantage is that the overall presentation is more balanced. I can hear the the vocal parts and orchestral parts equally well.
As a bit of an aside, I tried listening to Krauss again... not good It just doesn't have the sonic balance of the studio recordings.
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post #14 of 15
9/22/09 at 2:32am
BBC - Radio 3 - 'The Ring', A review of current recordings of the Ring

This sums up really well the present Ring options available, at least the most famous ones.
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post #15 of 15
9/22/09 at 11:03am
Like many others here - I would also get started with a DVD set. I got the Barenboim complete set very cheaply (40 euros or so) and am very happy with it. What makes the operas great is the music, not the story line, but of course if you're a fan you'll want to dig deeper.

Though it's not always an easy read, I would recommend Bryan Magee's 'Wagner and Philosophy' to anyone who really wants to get to the bottom of what Wagner is trying to say in the Ring and particularly Tristan and Parsifal.

CD wise I like the Barenboim also, thought the Solti can be great fun Karajan is OK, Clemens Krauss from the early 50s is fantastic if you don't mind bad sound. Also of interest are Dohnanyi's recordings with Cleveland, unfortunately they only did Rheingold and Walkure before the project became too expensive for Decca. But what there is sounds good.
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