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Portable Home Cinema and Audio System: An Excersize in Portable Excess - Page 2

post #16 of 29
9/10/09 at 11:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post
now I'm thinking: why a KGSS, and not simply use a used SS stax model? itd be cheaper, and with the smyth doing the phase calculations, I doubt there would be much more to hear in the movies. heck, even the amp that comes with the 2050 system should be fine
I will ask around about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Doug View Post
forget the laptop! get the Oppo blu-ray player, and use its multichannel audio-out for the smyth. then, use its video-out into some cinema goggles!
Why a laptop:
-Blu-Ray
-Ripped Blu-rays
-DVDs
-DVD copies
-Music database and movie database
-Games
-Will be using at work
-My computer related hobbies
-Internet
-Extreme multipurpose

From what I have read about the surround goggles they are in the majority low res and meh in quality/worth. A lappy screen (a good one) will work ok. I also need to see my surroundings.

Quote:
DVD players are capable of amazing feats, and are indeed extremely difficult to distinguish from their blu-ray counterparts
As one who owns a HD-DVD player: I prefer HD.
In regards to the audio... DVD uses medium bitrate lossy. The improvement is noticable, i think, over that.
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post #17 of 29
9/11/09 at 4:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
1: I really do not like dolby headphone. Compared to the realiser DH is a joke.
2: This hypothetical system is good enough for portable use as well as home use... what you suggested is not.
3: The train has an AC outlet.
4: Portable DVD players suck on average... compared to a good lappy.
5: I am talking about the 4070s not the lambdas.
1.The JVC Dolby is very good. I can't speak for the others. The realiser seems like a solution in search of a problem, it's big selling point is tracking head-movement. This is an issue with headphones? How much turning are you going to do while watching a little screen? Psychologically the visual image is going to dominate directional perception. There are many studies of this often referred to as the ventriloquism effect.

2. I use mine at home all the time after hours.

3. Ok so plug the poratble system in.

4. I am not sure of this. I persoanly haven't had a laptop yet whose picture was better than a comparable portable player including my recent Sony. Usually lacking in contrast and brightness.

5. I misread this. I would be real sure that I liked the 4070 before I bought it. The only one I heard, albeit briefly, was dry, raspy and uninvolving.


But hey, it's your money so follow your dream.
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post #18 of 29
9/11/09 at 4:44am
You do realize that every other passenger will be asking you what is all that/what does it do/how much does it cost/can you please turn off those annoying headphones I'm trying to sleep. If you plan on ever sitting next to anyone at all you can probably forget about it ... nobody wants to climb over all those devices on your lap when they have to go to the bathroom. Unless this is some kind of train where you get your own private compartment, I would think everyone around you would be pissed off.
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post #19 of 29
9/11/09 at 5:03am
Why not lug around a 100" plasma? A laptop LCD will look terrible and be too small

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post #20 of 29
9/11/09 at 5:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
1.The JVC Dolby is very good. I can't speak for the others.
Every DH enabled unit or piece of software uses the same DH DSPs. I have used DH many times: it's end result is below my standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
The realiser seems like a solution in search of a problem, it's big selling point is tracking head-movement. This is an issue with headphones? How much turning are you going to do while watching a little screen? Psychologically the visual image is going to dominate directional perception. There are many studies of this often referred to as the ventriloquism effect..
The head tracking is the most minor of it's capabilities. I suggest you read up on the unit and it's impressions @ CanJam (it was at Can Jam right?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
I misread this. I would be real sure that I liked the 4070 before I bought it. The only one I heard, albeit briefly, was dry, raspy and uninvolving
The realiser will auto equalize the phones so the EQ response is flat as perceived by my ear. It will then apply binaural processing to give the impression of surround sound in a room. The end result is that the 4070's sonic character is of little consiquence... the important aspects are transient response, that it can deliever on every frequency after EQ, isolation, and bass response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
But hey, it's your money so follow your dream.
^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriverdude View Post
Why not lug around a 100" plasma? A laptop LCD will look terrible and be too small
Sadly Pioneer does not make plasmas anymore *sheds tear* otherwise...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrboy
You do realize that every other passenger will be asking you what is all that/what does it do/how much does it cost/can you please turn off those annoying headphones I'm trying to sleep. If you plan on ever sitting next to anyone at all you can probably forget about it ... nobody wants to climb over all those devices on your lap when they have to go to the bathroom. Unless this is some kind of train where you get your own private compartment, I would think everyone around you would be pissed off.
Actually:
1: They will just see a person listening to some headphones with a laptop. The case with be discreet in appearence and not so large that it cannot be moved.
2: They will not have to climb over it: if it is on the fold down tray, i simply close my laptop lid, set the case on my laptop, wait for the person to pass, that is it.
Or, if the case is on the floor, they can simply step over it, as the case will not be very large in size.
3: I do not care much what they think: if they want piece and quiet they can move to the quiet-car.
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post #21 of 29
9/11/09 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
"Every DH enabled unit or piece of software uses the same DH DSPs. I have used DH many times: it's end result is below my standards."

What does this mean? DSP Digital Signal Processor. How can software and a piece of actual equipment have the same DSP?

"The head tracking is the most minor of it's capabilities. I suggest you read up on the unit and it's impressions @ CanJam (it was at Can Jam right?)."

However this appears to be the key difference between it and a regular Dolby system. It apparently tries to match the room characteristics of specific rooms and adjust the appraent direction of sounds as the head moves so that theye appear in stable locations. As I said you are not going to move your head much watching a laptop. Then there appear to be a number of "proprietary" tricks some old, some new (YAWN).

"The realiser will auto equalize the phones so the EQ response is flat as perceived by my ear. It will then apply binaural processing to give the impression of surround sound in a room. The end result is that the 4070's sonic character is of little consiquence... the important aspects are transient response, that it can deliever on every frequency after EQ, isolation, and bass response."

Too much processing creates distortion. If you look at most high end stuff it is actually pretty simple in concept. Just good 2 channel sound. I draw an exception for movies where I like Dolbly processing for both speakers and phones. However sometimes I just listen using using the normal stereo outputs with high quality phones, such as 404's and the sound is pretty good.
.
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post #22 of 29
9/11/09 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
What does this mean? DSP Digital Signal Processor. How can software and a piece of actual equipment have the same DSP?
I used the term in a haphazard way, my mistake.

To quote Dolby Labs:
"The Dolby Headphone process can be embedded into DSP chips or implemented in software for use in home theater A/V receivers and preamp/processors, in digital TVs, and in PCs. Dolby Headphone also offers application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) design for higher performance at less cost than a typical DSP solution."

It uses the same algorythms in every implementation, be it hardware or software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post
However this appears to be the key difference between it and a regular Dolby system. It apparently tries to match the room characteristics of specific rooms and adjust the appraent direction of sounds as the head moves so that theye appear in stable locations.
I suggest you cease comparing the Realiser and DH as you are not doing a very good job at that. I have read comparisons written by people who have listened to both, so I will very much trust their opinion over yours in this matter.

I appreciate you presenting an opposing view by the way.

I have some discussion with Stephen Smyth via e-mail over this subject... he is recommending an SRM-252 or SRM-310 to power the 4070s as both will dissapate a lot less heat, and have only 4db less headroom vs. the KGSS. He also suggests using a black aluminium suitcase with ports for small fans to provide venting, and stated that the Realiser uses 14 watts max, and weighs 3.3pounds.
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post #23 of 29
9/11/09 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Too much processing creates distortion. If you look at most high end stuff it is actually pretty simple in concept. Just good 2 channel sound. I draw an exception for movies where I like Dolbly processing for both speakers and phones. However sometimes I just listen using using the normal stereo outputs with high quality phones, such as 404's and the sound is pretty good.
Using EQ with transducers to achieve flat FR is pretty well-accepted. For example, Linkwitz's excellent orions and plutos both use it. If equalization is implemented properly it can achieve much better results than purely passive attempts to achieve flat FR.

edit: also, subscribed. This should be an interesting thread, do make sure to post some pics when it is up and running.
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post #24 of 29
9/12/09 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
I suggest you cease comparing the Realiser and DH as you are not doing a very good job at that. I have read comparisons written by people who have listened to both, so I will very much trust their opinion over yours in this matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
The realiser will auto equalize the phones so the EQ response is flat as perceived by my ear. It will then apply binaural processing to give the impression of surround sound in a room. The end result is that the 4070's sonic character is of little consiquence... the important aspects are transient response, that it can deliever on every frequency after EQ, isolation, and bass response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
I think I will pay for this via saving, overtime, not upgrading to a better BMW, selling my current equipment, selling my surround receiver, turntable, and maybe taking out a personal loan to fill in the gaps, and a few other things.
It sounds like you've actually heard DH and dislike it, but you've only read about the Realizer and are putting all your hopes, dreams, cash, and credit into it. I would tread very very carefully here. I don't know if you have any experience with DSP/equalization beyond DH, but there has been a lot of religion throughout the years about this. Whenever I hear someone say that the sonic character of the transducer no longer matters -- and this is not the first time -- I know someone has drunk the cool-aid. I've experimented with DSP a fair amount over the last 8 years, including taking measurements of my room. You didn't mention what you dislike about DH, but the fact that you dislike it may be an early indication that DSP-based solutions will disappoint you.

I find that the DH algorithm achieves a decent surround effect on mediocre headphones, but sounds distinctly artificial through revealing headphones. However, most movie soundtracks sound horribly artificial in the first place. You can hear the mish-mash of mixes, the reverb added to the sound room mismatching the visual acoustics of the set, and so on. I think people spend way too much money trying to make movies sound good. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I don't doubt that the Realizer achieves some nice results. But the marketing on their website is pretty heavy-handed. I recommend that you try it first before mortgaging your future on it.
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post #25 of 29
9/12/09 at 11:16am
OP, you are setting up a wonderful experience. However the main issue I see is the ammount of stuff you would be carrying and the associated weight. Of course there is a risk of being dropped/damaged or stolen.

Although not in the same league have you ever listened to the Sennheiser DSP through an HD580/600/650? You may be surprised.

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post #26 of 29
9/12/09 at 11:24am
If I saw you on the train with that lot, I'd mug you :-D
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post #27 of 29
9/12/09 at 1:42pm
Thread Starter 
In regards to my expectations of the Realiser... I simply have read the feed back of people who have actually used the thing... I see no fault in the concept behind it providing the results claimed, and the persons claiming said results do not appear to have an ulterior motivation or a habit of exaggerating.

In regards to my dislike of DH... I just feel the results are not convincing enough. The surround effect is extremely lacking, and the sound looses a lot of perceived quality through the process. I have a speaker system so I realize the difference between headphones and speakers, but really my 5.1 system sounds 10x better than DH in regards to perceived sound quality.

In regards to a headphone's tonal quality... I never said that was not a problem or irrelevant. I am simply saying that, with enough electrical power to drive it properly after it has been EQed, it should work quite well.

In regards to the weight... it would most likely be 15-20 pounds at the max. I do not mind carrying that amount on to a train.
And as I have said this system would have two parts... the phones and the case (depending on how everything fit's inside the case I might be able to store the phones in there... doubt it though). Two objects are not a lot to carry around in this situation (I am not counting the laptop because that is something I would have no matter what).
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post #28 of 29
6/9/10 at 11:05am

I have run quite a few rigs like this.

 

Laptop - get a big honking heavy weight lap burner and plug it in (High end dell/hp/apple) 17" min screen 1920x1200 resolution with BR

 

Headphones...I have owned high end 8 speaker dolby headphones, some regular full size, etc etc.  I would get a pair of JH audio 16s and call it a day.

 

The separation isnt good enough in the dolby stuff to matter and they are miles below in audio quality.   I dont feel I am missing anything when watching BR on custom fit IEMs.  I have a monster theater at home and still enjoy movies on the road.

 

No amount of equipment is going to fix the fact that proper surround sound is from speakers with SEPARATION between the channels.

 

I would get an external amp/dac/volume knob - I hate using computer volume controls with any equipment.  I have demod quit a few of the "glasses" and they are gimmicks.

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post #29 of 29
6/20/10 at 2:29pm

I enjoy the ultimate "virtual" multi channel surround sound at home and on the go.   And it's not possible to iRiverDude to mug me and take it away (not that he'd be able to).

 

-Ed

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