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post #151 of 387

https://www.partstore.com/Part/Sony/Sony/MDRCD3000/Sony/Sony/494622601/New.aspx Hey CD3k fans, do you guys happen to know if this part is the grey plastic ear cup itself, or is it the black plastic bases that contain and mount the driver and ear pad? As far as I can tell, the CD3k's cups are reversible, so buying a pair of these might work for replacing both.

post #152 of 387
Yes, its the left grey cup differs from R and its not just plastic!
Its the amazing organic fiber composite material!
Quote:
The floating earcup system improves resonance characteristics and sonic performance while the organic fiber composite earcup housing provides a personal concert hall for the ear with high resonance suppression for pure, natural sound reproduction. (Amazon.com)
161246-2.jpg
http://www.nodevice.com.pt/manual/sonymans/manual3927pdf/get5443.html
BTW you can get CD3000 earpads from ebay.
And now for the first time also pleather SA5000, but I dont trust the size and the center foam, I wait for their reply about the correct cup sizes of approx. 102mm x 90mm.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=sa-5000&LH_PrefLoc=2&_from=R40|R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=sony+sa5000&_sacat=0

UPDATE: NICE SA5000 EBAY:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MDR-SA5000-Headband-Headphones-Silver-Black-/271734367813?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f44a16645
Edited by cdsa35000 - 1/8/15 at 4:05pm
post #153 of 387

Yes, I know that it's a plastic composite material embedded with natural fibers derived from plant material, or something of the sort. I suppose I just felt like saying "plastic" for the sake of complicity. Thank you very much for the parts list--that's the only thing my CD3000s did not come with, the original manual (there was one right?), my fellow SA5k/CD3k owning friend (I must say, these two headphones are my favorites too, we must be kindred spirits. :p).

I've been working on making leather pads and headband for my phones. I already have, actually, but I did it in a very resourceful way, using improper tools and glue more than sewing (though I did sew the inner circumference of the ear cups, so the glue wouldn't rub against the ears). I've ordered some more material (as opposed to using leather scraps I took from damaged items), and I'm gonna give it a second go!


Yes, I also did a detachable cable mod on these using some old parts from a ruined USB sound card (for female TRS connectors), no cutting of the CD3k's plastic (the black extension is just a little rubber gasket I put over the cable's 1/4" adapter threading to hide it). I was very tired of replacing the cable (actually, now that I remember, I was quite dumb and tipped over my laptop once whilst listening. Crunched the black jack (yep) connector and bent it. :( Either way, having cables I can replace with ease is very nice!
 

Also redid the internal elastic (simple really!) with a tighter piece of elastic, cloth just like the original, and now they fit very snug! I also remade the self-adjusting strap out of a thin ABS cutout (the original was warped and twisted beyond repair. I was surprised it used a plastic internal structure!), which I'll likely do again with the new leather.

Oh, and I had to fix some plastic that was chipping away on the hangers, so I used some thicker ABS sheet and some plastaid repair compound (very handy stuff!) to fill in the gaps and bond the material. Yeah, these poor things were really beat up when I bought them. I plan on repainting the cups and reapplying decals (the paint/shell material blistered and was like that since I first purchased these 8 years ago), a unique, but tasteful color -- not grey, likely a pretty plum pearlescent -- since these are already phones I'd never sell. I was wondering about ordering a new pair of cups just for the sake of having them stock, BUT. If the L / R cups are truly different and non-reversible, then I might not bother. I should try reversing them when I have to dismantle them next time and see what happens.

Also the quilt-work style of the leather was not done for style as much as it was out of necessity, since I had no leather long enough for the headband. I tried to do it tastefully though. ^^;


Edited by E3E - 1/8/15 at 5:31pm
post #154 of 387
post #155 of 387

Yep! A very nice guide, I have logged that one myself. :3 I did most of the work myself the first go, studying the pads and headband for how it was fastened, but I did use the guide for reference to add some dampening foam to the driver a few days later (after I found the guide), though one that won't degrade like the urethane foam. I tried tissue paper, but that had some bad resonance issues with very low frequencies, at least for me.

Have you made custom pads or a headband for your headphones, my 3k 5k friend? How is yours when it comes to condition? I ordered some nice lambskin and some orthopedic memory foam that should feel really nice and have a wonderful seal to boot (it will be entirely sewn this time). The leather itself, I noticed in comparison to the worn away now-fabric ear pads, had an amazing seal and upped the feeling of bass with the CD3k. The foam over the ear pads seemed to make the CD3ks not as sharp in the treble as usual. I'm not sure if that is just my imagination though.

Does the foam over the driver tame the highs, or does it affect mids? I do believe I Read that the urethane RING that sits outside of the driver and on the black plastic affects the mids? I replaced that as well, after stumbling upon that guide.

post #156 of 387
Oyeah, my solution was peeling all the earpads/headbands pleathers off after marinated in water a day to soften. Feels good fluffy comfortable now.
It looks similar like this now, the bare cloth material remains, except the bottom ring of the front ring is of a durable pleather material that doesn't rot like the collagen softer pleather around.
Although I have the ebay earpads I keep using the bare ones till they falling apart too.


The foam will dampen both highs/mids, its good it covers the metal grill to dampen the surface soundreflections.
I think this metal grill is enhancing the pierching by inner reflections of the big metal screen with (horrible) tiny holes.

Edited by cdsa35000 - 1/8/15 at 6:55pm
post #157 of 387
What I can't stand against off are the microphonics of plastic cracking/popping noises tfrom he headband/cupjoints.
I have the silent remedy of both HP by using these thin fabric tape.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/wall-repair-tape-white-50mm-x-25m/78232
78232_P

I use little tape to cover the metal/plastic joints and all the plastic edges and ridges that's causing microphonic frictions.



And I also covered the inner "bare" plastic walls and the "bare" metal magnet part also with this tape to dampen inner vibrations and reflections,
SQ with will be much smoother and better, at least it stopped the cracking plastic/metal.
post #158 of 387

Ahh yes, the search for "audiophile" nirvana, all these DIY mods. I do sometimes wonder if any of it is excessive or done thanks to the placebo effect. There is no denying that such fabric would soften vibrations, but the inner walls of the ear cups have very light stepping against their bare surface that is supposed to help shape soundwaves (similar to the R10, from what I've read), which I would not want to cover with any sort of material. I do notice the creaking of the plastic and what not from the flexing of the plastic from the headband, but I think that is mainly because the headband is now much tighter (and I really like a tighter fit on these). I might try some of this fabric for the sake of dampening, but I don't notice anything too distressing with my CD3000s aside from highs (especially shrill female vocals) being harsh against the ears if the volume is high. Alas, as I am not from the UK, I cannot order this tape. I will have to look around for alternatives.

http://www.amazon.com/Mefix-Self-Adhesive-Fabric-Tape-Width/dp/B000ITHSVW Seems like a good choice.
 

Cool story, bro~ :L3000: It's nice to see someone who likes trying to perfect the sound on their favorite headphones.

The pads on my CD3ks originally wore out as well, they were not completely deteriorated upon purchase, but they were close. Once the collagen-like pleather material flaked away, I did notice how incredibly comfortable the fabric pads were. I actually like the feeling a lot, though I am not sure how I like it compared to leather (it's hard to choose). I am hoping the lambskin and memory foam combination will be very comfortable and luxurious!

 


Edited by E3E - 1/9/15 at 3:46am
post #159 of 387
Inner standing wave is not placebo, its acoustic science, more so bigger affecting the hp cups because of closer to ears for hearing:
http://www.google.com/search?q=speaker+box+standing+wave
Yes, it won't make sence for ppl without sensitive "golden" ears.
Any HP (designer) are designed with deadlines and costs in the "sale/research" calculation time and won't be fully optimized from longterm usage of the actual user to be fully aware of the sound signature/influences etc. for the final "best" optimization and improvements.

Those bare plastic innerwall's surface are too smooth to absorb the reflecting echo's, it should be more coarse structured now they're enhancing the reflecting, they only put inside a piece of foam sponge to damp some.
Clothed walls will soften the piercing "pressure" soundpulses into more natural balanced SQ.

My DIY optimization of these HP is finished, because I don't need any further (re)searching now.
---

Those amazon tape looks like toilet paper, will be good for the inner walls but probably too thick to fit/fill the metaljoints/plastic cracks.
These are maybe better:
http://www.amazon.com/Aleenes-29134-Fabric-Fusion-Tape/dp/B005572IKS/ref=pd_sbs_bt_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0WCWNSY975B049274A6D
The real tape is ultra thin with stretchable dense porous paperfiber structure, you can get from ebay but the investment high cost is not worth it for you, since you can't hear the HP soundproblems now.
But have fun with modding.
Edited by cdsa35000 - 1/9/15 at 3:38am
post #160 of 387

I'm certainly no audio engineer, so I do not know the exact sciences of how sound waves are influenced. Despite that, I do work a lot with sound, working with music, working with audio files and recordings and in processing and leveling and ensuring that everything is good in the mix and mastering, and I so I have to always be aware of even the slightest nuances and strange inflections that might crop up. I'd say I work well in that environment and produce high quality audio, so I do not think my ears are lacking in any sense. :3 Perhaps I don't listen to the right music genres to notice these distortions or reverberations, or perhaps I simply don't understand the way the technical jargon translates in a practical sense. Do you have any professional experience here, or is this just a involved hobby for you?


Yes, it's obvious that headphone designers can't use premium materials because on a mass scale, that would drive production costs way up, let alone R&D costs. What might be cheap on the consumer end modification (ie leather pads, dampening, etc), is quite a bit more expensive when mass production comes into play. I have never studied acoustic properties of materials and what not, so my knowledge is quite limited there, as I've said. http://www.ebay.com/itm/FDW8191-U-FibaTape-Perfect-Finish-Ultra-Thin-Drywall-Joint-Tape-/161308002471?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258eb4c8a7 This is thin tape, but it is fiber glass, I feel as if that would be adverse for sound dampening. Feel free to give me a good alternative through PM if you don't mind the trouble. If the Amazon link you sent is not quite satisfactory, that is. I want the best I can get for them.

My CD3ks are my babies, and I will do all I can to modify them both acoustically and cosmetically, so I won't write out such an investment. :)

---
After some quick searching on microphonics, I see what you mean, it's a characteristic "stereoscope" effect. Mechanical energy being turned into an electrical signal, and it, to me, at least with the microphonic cable effect, reminds me of tapping on a microphone. My CD3k cable has no microphonic effect (unless it's tapped SHARPLY--no natural movement would cause this) whereas my SA5k has comparatively more microphonic effect in the cable (I suspect the detachable mod eliminates a much of the vibration energy from traveling all the way up with the CD3k).

The tightness of the headband reduces most creaking as the fit is very snug, so I don't think I'm hearing many microphonic phenomena with my headphones. Now resonance and reflection, perhaps. If that is what is part of what is making the highs harsh. I would not imagine that the hanger area has much to do with that here, that seems like more of a microphonic problem area, but it is minimal with the tight headband. Regardless, I'd like to dampen it with tape all the same, and especially if doing so on the cups round out the highs even more.
---

Also, are you satsified with the lesser seal of the fabric ear pads? I would imagine, like velour, they leak bit more. I noticed a very pleasant difference when I tried my leather pads after being used to the fabric (worn away pleather) pads for so long. The seal is wonderful, and it affected the bass pleasantly, though I can imagine that might be part of the reason the highs are sharper as well.


Edited by E3E - 1/9/15 at 5:12am
post #161 of 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdsa35000 View Post

Inner standing wave is not placebo, its acoustic science, more so bigger affecting the hp cups because of closer to ears for hearing:
http://www.google.com/search?q=speaker+box+standing+wave
Yes, it won't make sence for ppl without sensitive "golden" ears.
Any HP (designer) are designed with deadlines and costs in the "sale/research" calculation time and won't be fully optimized from longterm usage of the actual user to be fully aware of the sound signature/influences etc. for the final "best" optimization and improvements.

Those bare plastic innerwall's surface are too smooth to absorb the reflecting echo's, it should be more coarse structured now they're enhancing the reflecting, they only put inside a piece of foam sponge to damp some.
Clothed walls will soften the piercing "pressure" soundpulses into more natural balanced SQ.

My DIY optimization of these HP is finished, because I don't need any further (re)searching now.
---

Those amazon tape looks like toilet paper, will be good for the inner walls but probably too thick to fit/fill the metaljoints/plastic cracks.
These are maybe better:
http://www.amazon.com/Aleenes-29134-Fabric-Fusion-Tape/dp/B005572IKS/ref=pd_sbs_bt_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0WCWNSY975B049274A6D
The real tape is ultra thin with stretchable dense porous paperfiber structure, you can get from ebay but the investment high cost is not worth it for you, since you can't hear the HP soundproblems now.
But have fun with modding.

 

I think you woefully underestimate the engineering that went into these. The CD3000 was not some quick project to make a buck. They were extremely expensive headphones at the time they were released and gained greatly from the insane amount of R&D that went into the R1. The shell material and design was chosen for a reason, and certainly engineered in a particular way. If they could have improved the sound by sticking .02 worth of tape to the cups, they would have. The response of these headphones would have been heavily optimized through extensive testing with equipment that no ordinary individual has access to. So you stick some tape here and there and declare it an improvement on that design? You may prefer that sound for whatever reason, but please.

post #162 of 387

Welp, now I'm quite divided! I have to say, I agree to an extent with both points, leaning a bit more in the favor of the idea that these were indeed Sony's high-end flagship for a long time, deriving a lot of engineering and experience from the R10s, and so are well-engineered. I'm personally happy with the phones as they are sonically, aside from a slightly harsh treble at high volume, but tweaking is always an interest.


Edited by E3E - 1/9/15 at 6:14am
post #163 of 387
I'm not going into worthless discussion about manufacture R&D/SQ knowhow/production time/material/costs etc.
Any DIY modder will try improve any and even "high-end" audiogear for the best:
http://apuresound.com/r10r/jlr10/


http://www.head-fi.org/t/608294/sony-mdr-r10-some-tlc-and-a-recable-for-an-old-set
350x232px-LL-9f4a58b2_DSC_0012.jpeg

And Sony learned from mistake from using that big front metal grill "blocking" causing the innerreflections that gives that harsh "metallic" reflecting sounds.
And when turnup the volume "too high" it will sounds like highly pressured one whole distorted mess because that.

All the lastest front grills are practically open now!
post #164 of 387

So, CDSA, with your seemingly informed opinion, what say you on my questions about microphonics and reflections raised a few posts back? I do have to say, you sort of have a lofty tone, but then I suppose that's not too uncommon when someone is proud of their handiwork and knowledge, heh.

post #165 of 387

I don't disagree that people will try to mod anything; what irks me to no end though is that many people who are trying extremely simple changes assume that the designs they are modifying are just haphazard when in fact for most quality equipment, especially from a big name like Sony, every aspect of the response was designed, measured and verified to do exactly what they wanted. Since every design is a compromise you can alter that sound on your own, but especially when you have no method at all of verifying what the changes are doing, don't try to make the claim that you are improving the design!

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