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Amp3 Pro2 and the STUDIO - Page 15

post #211 of 929
10/9/09 at 2:09pm
I want to see the proof that a 1/4" jack is not more effective than a 1/8" jack in terms of powering something.

I say contact shenanigans because any idiot knows different metals have different conductivities and other properties. For example, it's easy to find semi-reliable information about gold and silver contacts Contacts: Silver VS Gold (okay, not a very reliable source, but it's a good place to start. At least it sounds pretty factual with regards to resistance and wear)

You just saying "That's correct" only proves that this might be conventional knowledge. It's pretty pointless and irritating to read. I understand that you may not have wanted to put that much effort into the post, but for my sake so I can become wiser, I would like to actually learn something if you have the ability to teach.
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post #212 of 929
10/9/09 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef View Post
I want to see the proof that a 1/4" jack is not more effective than a 1/8" jack in terms of powering something.

I say contact shenanigans because any idiot knows different metals have different conductivities and other properties. For example, it's easy to find semi-reliable information about gold and silver contacts Contacts: Silver VS Gold (okay, not a very reliable source, but it's a good place to start. At least it sounds pretty factual with regards to resistance and wear)

You just saying "That's correct" only proves that this might be conventional knowledge. It's pretty pointless and irritating to read. I understand that you may not have wanted to put that much effort into the post, but for my sake so I can become wiser, I would like to actually learn something if you have the ability to teach.
Sorry to post pointless and irritating comments. But isn't the term shenanigans irritating? What is OK for one person is not OK for another?

Anyways, you are right, I am not going to spend the time backing everything up. But some basics:
- size of the contact area combined with the material used determines the current carrying capacity. So what is the power being supplied to the headphone, and is the contact area enough when using a specific material?

I have an electrical engineering degree with a lot of real world material experience, so a lot of this stuff is intuitive to me, even if I don't currently have the specifics to back it up. I currently am not doing that type of work, so I don't have all the technical info at my fingertips.

Worst case is there is more resistance, reducing the current flow, reducing the power and therefore the volume.

Here are some links to help in piecing together the puzzle:
Metal conductivity
Table at the bottom of the page with conductivity of copper vs. phosphor bronze
Wire gauge and current capacity

So did this help at all?
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post #213 of 929
10/9/09 at 2:54pm
"- size of the contact area combined with the material used determines the current carrying capacity."

I don't understand how that doesn't mean a larger jack will have better current carrying capacity? Or does that actually mean a larger contact is worse?

And yes, that is much more useful, thank you. I'm sorry if you felt insulted, but I do like to read and understand things for myself.
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post #214 of 929
10/9/09 at 3:09pm
Yes, a larger contact area will have higher current carrying capability.

But for this application, it means the relatively small currents (typical headphone current for normal listening) being carried won't result in a difference between a 1/4 and 1/8 plug/jack. And expanding on what HiFlight said, if you have seen a trace in a PCB, there isn't a lot of surface area, less than on a 1/8 plug/jack (at lease from what I have seen). The cross-sectional area can be beefed up on the PCB (or use multiple traces), but I have not seen it in a headphone application.

But I haven't done the calculations, so I can't say what max current is for either, but would bet it is more than enough based on past experience with current carrying, wiring, and connectors.

As far as the wording (shenanigans), I would think if someone wants to learn and is asking for clarification, they might choose their words a little more carefully. However, that is me.
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post #215 of 929
10/9/09 at 3:43pm
If we're talking about an amp (the Studio) designed to power full size headphones (with impedance sometimes 300 ohms), aren't we talking about something that needs that kind of consideration? Or is that still a pitiful amount of power? The reason I ask is that all home equipment uses 1/4", so I wonder if that is because of power considerations, or if it's just a durability thing. This is basically where my confusion stems from.

I'm sorry you took offense to the word shenanigans. I only wanted to clarify that I was talking about the jack size, and not the "STUFF" about contact material. This is an international forum, different places use words differently. I ask that you don't judge me too harshly for using words the way my own culture does.
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post #216 of 929
10/9/09 at 3:52pm
Shenanigans...water under the bridge Happy to move on, and sorry if I misinterpreted the way your culture uses terminology.

It is still a pitiful amount of power compared to the size of the contact area current carrying capability IMO even for a 1/8". However, as stated before I am only using my intuition based off previous experience as I have not (and more than likely will not) do the actual calculating.

And 1/8" is more durable. I don't know all the history, but full sized equipment doesn't have the space requirements, and even if the durability and current carrying is the same, who is going to be the leader of the change from 1/4 to 1/8 on the equipment side. I am sure some consumers wouldn't buy them since their home headphones have 1/4 plugs, and that is what they are looking for, if you follow.

Another way is if I was running a company and the standard is 1/4 inch, I am not going to change my product to use a 1/8 inch out of fear of reduced sales.
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post #217 of 929
10/9/09 at 4:47pm
Agreed

I appreciate the clarification for my questions, thank you very much. It does ease my mind slightly about the Studio having a 1/8".

I understand your point about it being a bad idea for marketing wise for someone to suddenly start using 1/4" in home audio, and it is fair enough. For home equipment bulky things do look more appealing and impressive, so even if 1/8" jacks had existed when the industry got started, they would not necessarily be used anyway.
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post #218 of 929
10/9/09 at 5:20pm
just got my pro2! hooked it into the AC power and i have the volume at 31 (max) but i cant hear barely... i'm missing something here i just haven't figured out what yet.

i need some help. i tried with my Pro900's first and at 31 and it says "Nature" right next to the volume number it is too low... i can get louder sound connecting my pro900's straight to my PC sound card so i need help please.

then i tried with my Senn PX100 (i thought maybe it's just the 'phones) and still it's just too low.

Do I have to let the battery fully charge first before I use it and hear the full volume and amplification? I just hooked it in now to let it charge I really hope this volume thing is fixable.

PLEASE HELP CRAIG (or anyone) !

PS: the music files i put on the player are VBR mp3
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post #219 of 929
10/9/09 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by musik_lover View Post
just got my pro2! hooked it into the AC power and i have the volume at 31 (max) but i cant hear barely... i'm missing something here i just haven't figured out what yet.

i need some help. i tried with my Pro900's first and at 31 and it says "Nature" right next to the volume number it is too low... i can get louder sound connecting my pro900's straight to my PC sound card so i need help please.

then i tried with my Senn PX100 (i thought maybe it's just the 'phones) and still it's just too low.

Do I have to let the battery fully charge first before I use it and hear the full volume and amplification? I just hooked it in now to let it charge I really hope this volume thing is fixable.

PLEASE HELP CRAIG (or anyone) !

PS: the music files i put on the player are VBR mp3
Do you notice any change in volume when you move volume up and down? If not then try resetting the player (reset button is in between hp out and line in).

Edit: Disregard the question. I seem to remember no change in volume when my amp3 was stuck in line in mode but I managed to get it stuck in line in again and there definitely is a difference in volume, my bad. Its all very faint though. I also got it out of line in mode without turning it off by putting it into radio mode (which turned off line in mode) then going to source manager.
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post #220 of 929
10/9/09 at 6:53pm
Oh definitely I notice a difference. I go from 00 to 31 and I hear it gradually going up or down but even at 31 it's just not loud at all... Like I said I can hook my Ultrason pro900's straight to my computer's sound card with NO amp and the sound output is louder...

I am letting the player fully charge now. Maybe that's the problem I don't know.
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post #221 of 929
10/9/09 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef View Post
Agreed

I appreciate the clarification for my questions, thank you very much. It does ease my mind slightly about the Studio having a 1/8".

I understand your point about it being a bad idea for marketing wise for someone to suddenly start using 1/4" in home audio, and it is fair enough. For home equipment bulky things do look more appealing and impressive, so even if 1/8" jacks had existed when the industry got started, they would not necessarily be used anyway.
Glad I could help clear that up, at least somewhat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musik_lover View Post
just got my pro2! hooked it into the AC power and i have the volume at 31 (max) but i cant hear barely... i'm missing something here i just haven't figured out what yet.

i need some help. i tried with my Pro900's first and at 31 and it says "Nature" right next to the volume number it is too low... i can get louder sound connecting my pro900's straight to my PC sound card so i need help please.

then i tried with my Senn PX100 (i thought maybe it's just the 'phones) and still it's just too low.

Do I have to let the battery fully charge first before I use it and hear the full volume and amplification? I just hooked it in now to let it charge I really hope this volume thing is fixable.

PLEASE HELP CRAIG (or anyone) !

PS: the music files i put on the player are VBR mp3
I don't want to insult your intelligence, but there is an input for line in and an output for the headphone. Are you sure the headphone is connected to the headphone out?

Also, on the AMP3 Pro1 that I have, when the line in is connected and then the AMP3 is turned on, I can hear the player playing faintly in the background. Is something in the line in jack?

And resetting isn't a bad idea. Also, it could be lack of charge, but doesn't seem too probable to me.
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post #222 of 929
10/9/09 at 6:55pm
I was thinking what average joe is, or at least that your amp3 somehow got stuck in 'line in' mode. I would try resetting it anyway.
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post #223 of 929
10/9/09 at 7:04pm
Well I saw the two little jacks up at the top. I can put it in the headphone jack and trust me I get sound. I am not saying it is so faint that i can't hear a drum from a guitar string. It DOES play definitely. If I take out the headphones and plug them in to the line-in jack it does not play anymore. So I just shut it off and plug it back into the headphone jack.

It just seems strange to me that it does not go any louder. I remember reading here people would say "if you put the volume above 21 or so you hear a hiss"... Well I have it at 31 and I don't hear a "hiss" at all. I unplug the headphones (pro900's OR senn px100s) into my computer's soundcard (directly) and I can hear that little "hiss" and when I play music from my computer it's louder.
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post #224 of 929
10/9/09 at 7:19pm
Did you try to reset it?? You should definitely try to if you haven't, it will probably fix it (unless the problem is that its defective). When I said only if you don't hear volume difference I was entirely wrong, I don't know what I was thinking. If it's stuck in line in there is still a volume difference, but its all really faint. Just like you describe. Hiss on the AMP3 mostly occurs with IEMs so, in conclusion, RESET YOUR AMP3.

I really hope you get it working, as it would definitely suck to have to send it back and wait for another one.
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post #225 of 929
10/9/09 at 11:26pm
Well I am over here trying the "RESET" button. It does seems to reset. I can't believe I have a "defective" product.

So the sound volume is "low" like I said before right? But now I am noticing that it is in mono as well... What the hell is wrong? Did I really get a defective one?

Maybe a firmware update would correct whatever is happening internally? I don't know. Can someone provide me with a link to the latest firmware please?

Craig, if this is defective and there is nothing else I can do, I'd like another to be shipped to me.
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