Onkyo Digital Media Transport ND-S1 alternative to Wadia 170 iTransport - Page 8

A quick thought there is a line out dock / cable / amp coming from alo in the future? I think they have to work it out with apple first.Have a look at RMAF show report.

Once again Vinnie it was nice meeting you. I didn't really get to do a back and forth with the Onkyo and the Wadia but the Onkyo sounded spectacular on your DAC/AMP combo. I suspect the key ingredient was the clean power source coupled with the quality DA converter you use. Judging from what else I heard out of the Wadia it does seem they sound identical.

The only benefit the Wadia has is the prettier packaging and isolation feet. That being said, given the projected price of the Onkyo it seems a good candidate for a chop job and maybe integration into a single stand alone unit.

The RedWine and the RSA setups were my two favorite of the show....and given the price of the Red Wine it's a clear winner. If I was in the market for a standalone DA/Head amp this would be on the top of my list.

Yes, battery power is much cleaner power vs. the very cheap, stock switch-mode power supply adapters that come with these units. The stock switch-mode supplies output a lot of high frequency noise (both on the output voltage, and back into your mains AC outlet, as well as radiated noise).

Hi ruknd,

It was great to meet you at the NY headfi meet, and thanks for all the kind words and I'm glad you enjoyed listening to my set-up.

Hope to see you at the next show!

Vinnie

Does anyone have any new info on trustworthy stores/sites that would ship the Onkyo ND-S1 to the US? I looked up reviews on StoneAudio and only found negative reviews that emails and calls were never replied to. Anyone use them before? Thanks.

All,

I spent well over an hour this evening comparing the Wadia iTransport and Onkyo ND-S1's coaxial digital outputs (using the stock power supplies, as well as the SLA battery power from the Red Wine Audio Isabellina HPA):

Source - iPhone using Apple Lossless files.
Amp/Dac - Isabellina HPA
Headphones - HD800s with ALO Audio cabling.

Sound

In terms of sound quality - they are really so close that I really cannot call one a winner.

When using the their stock SMPS adapters, they sound nearly identical.

When fed from the SLA battery power, they both showed an equally noticeable improvement in sound (better defined bass, larger soundstage, better imaging, more extended top-end with less stridency)... what you typically hear when move up to a higher quality digital transport.

I am guessing (just from listening) that they are using very similar circuitry inside (haven't had the time to open them both up and compare)...

Features

Wadia iTransport offers a more solid feel and nice rubber isolation feet. The Wadia also comes with different iPod dock adapters to use with various iPod models (e.g. iPhone, iPod Classic, Nano, etc.).

The Onkyo does not seem to come with different iPod dock adapters, but it has a sliding door on the top to protect the dock plug

The Onkyo has both coax and optical outputs (Wadia only has coax), as well as a USB input. Using the iPod/PC button, you can switch between using your iPods digital output, or feeding the Onkyo from your computer's USB port (thus making it a USB-to-SPDIF converter). The USB input is also nice so you can sync your iPod to iTunes while it is in the dock (Wadia does not have this). The Onkyo also has an On/Standby switch, while the Wadia has no power switch.

The Wadia has analog outputs (what is the point? You buy this for the digital output so you can feed your higher quality dac!) and s-video, while the Onkyo has no analog output and composite video. I really can care less about analog audio or video outputs for these units - but I thought I'd mention it.

Both units come with remotes with basic playback features - nothing special.

Build quality

The Wadia is more solid and feels twice as heavy, but it is also larger. The Onkyo is less than half the height and less deep (and approx. the same width).

Value

Have to give the win to the Onkyo - more features, less cost.

I'm not sure when the Onkyo is coming to North America, but my guess is the price will be at least $150 less than the Wadia (MSRP = $379).

I hope this has been helpful, and I look forward to reading others impressions and comparisons between these two units.

Best regards,

Vinnie

SA let me down. I gave them my credit card info, and I never received confirmation that they shipped. I emailed them, and they told me they wanted a credit card statement scanned or faxed to prove that it was legit (meanwhile, my card says "Red Wine Audio" and my emails link to my website and phone number - as if I am some scammer). They also said I could instead wire the funds to their bank (the Royal Bank of Scotland). No thanks - that would cost me $45 wire fee from my bank. And they wouldn't take paypal.

They were slow to respond to my emails and we just had to part ways because I could not do business with a company like that. I'm sure they are fine if you live in the UK, but for overseas customers, they were too difficult to work with.

Vinnie

Sensational - thanks for that, Vinnie. Are you able to comment on the What Hi-Fi reviews, sp. the assertion that the sound quality (even with a high end DAC-amp combination) isnt on par with an 'entry-level' CDP ? My own view is that they have advertising revenue to protect, but it would be great to hear confirmation that they got it wrong.

Cheers,

estreeter

Many thanks for the review Vinnie. I was very helpful. Thank you as well for your thoughts on StoneAudio. Your experience with them sounds exactly like all of the reviews I found on the internet regarding them, although I couldn't find much.

My take on this is:

If you are using Lossless or WAV files in your iPod, the sound quality of the Onkyo (or Wadia) is easily on par with an "entry-level" CD transport - so I have to disagree with them based on my listening experience.

And if you are using a high-end dac with these units - you can easily obtain sound quality that is superior to an entry level CD player.

Again, as long as you are using Lossless or WAV files. If they were using 128k MP3s on their iPod, well then maybe I can see where they are coming from. Otherwise, I strongly disagree with their comments.

Just my opinion,

Vinnie

I have read every review I have been able to find on the Wadia 170i. The reocurring theme is that an anti-jitter device or a DAC with excellent jitter reduction really make a big improvement with sound quality and make the sound quality a lot closer to higher end transports (along with power upgrade of course). I haven't been able to audition them yet so take it with a grain of salt, but I am sold on it since everything I have read has enthusiastically reaffirmed this. I'm planning on getting one of these (Wadia/Onkyo) and a Monarchy DIP until I can afford a really high end DAC with excellent jitter reduction.

The wadia has a usb and rca outs? What are the RCA outs for? Does the Wadia have a DA converter?

This Onkyo unit is hot on my radar.

ruknd, neither the Wadia nor the Onkyo have a DAC. That is why they are termed 'transports'.

Vinnie and Sid-Fi : thanks for the feedback. I agree that controlling jitter has to be fist priority coming out of a transport, but surely the What Hi-Fi reviewer knew this (or perhaps he didnt ..). He certainly made a point in the Wadia review of matching it with a ferociously expensive DAC in the Wadia review, but there wasnt a single mention of the need to control excessive jitter from either transport. Purist audiophiles may have tunnel vision - that is the only thing I can put it down to.

Well I've tried to buy one from Peter Tyson in the UK, but it seems that I can't get to the payment page!! Maybe I should take this as an omen and leave it.

Tony I got mine from PT, it was delivered to a UK address within a couple of days.

Peter Tyson is a great company to deal with. Phone them to do the deal....