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Sennheiser HD800 vs. JH-13 Pro: Battle of the Titans - Page 6

post #76 of 97
I was getting very close to pulling the trigger on the HD800's. In one of those bizarre "where have I been" moments, I only heard of the JH13 last week despite the fact that I log onto Head-Fi almost every single day. It's possible I heard mention of them but just didn't realize what they were. Anyway, now it seems I have another choice to contend with.

By all accounts, it appears the JH13 would be the way to go. I don't think I've read anything really negative about them and everyone who has heard both prefers the JH13. It has a lot going for it, especially that it's not as source and amp dependent as the 800 (which appears to be a crap shoot). I gather the JH13 is also somewhat more forgiving when it comes to poorly recorded material, and most of us probably have more poor recordings than we care to admit.

The only drawbacks I see to the JH13 are that I can't return or sell them if I want/need to, and the isolation factor. I'd be using them only at home where I don't particularly like isolation. I usually listen to my music at levels so that I can still hear the phone ring, etc. Both of these issues are pretty big for me. I wasn't planning on making a purchase for a month or so, so I still have time to decide. Hopefully I'll gather enough info and impressions to make an informed decision.
post #77 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by zotjen View Post
I was getting very close to pulling the trigger on the HD800's. In one of those bizarre "where have I been" moments, I only heard of the JH13 last week despite the fact that I log onto Head-Fi almost every single day. It's possible I heard mention of them but just didn't realize what they were. Anyway, now it seems I have another choice to contend with.

By all accounts, it appears the JH13 would be the way to go. I don't think I've read anything really negative about them and everyone who has heard both prefers the JH13. It has a lot going for it, especially that it's not as source and amp dependent as the 800 (which appears to be a crap shoot). I gather the JH13 is also somewhat more forgiving when it comes to poorly recorded material, and most of us probably have more poor recordings than we care to admit.

The only drawbacks I see to the JH13 are that I can't return or sell them if I want/need to, and the isolation factor. I'd be using them only at home where I don't particularly like isolation. I usually listen to my music at levels so that I can still hear the phone ring, etc. Both of these issues are pretty big for me. I wasn't planning on making a purchase for a month or so, so I still have time to decide. Hopefully I'll gather enough info and impressions to make an informed decision.
I keep a cordless phone next to my listening rig, so I can see the phone ring and not need to hear it. With the isolation I can listen at lower levels and protect my hearing.
post #78 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by feifan View Post
Slackman, impressive. Good observations, good questions, good thinking. I've been skeptical of in-ear 'phones and couldn't fathom how they could compete against full-sized reference cans, but reviews of the JH-13 Pro have made me rethink my assumptions. You've asked the kinds of questions I would have asked. The responses, too, from this JH-13 crowd, have been gracious and not at all defensive. Now I'm curious to hear these little wonders. Thanks all, for a great thread!
Completely agree, really well said. I also wanna thank everyone for the great responses. I'm holding on to my wallet for dear life here
post #79 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0dhi View Post
Completely agree, really well said. I also wanna thank everyone for the great responses. I'm holding on to my wallet for dear life here
Me too! The only worry that I have is concerning the bass. I remember reading reviews about my LiveWires that went on and on about the bass and I find them to be VERY light in that quality.

Call me skeptical.
post #80 of 97
All I can say is... wax.

No way I'd spend big bucks on IEMs... I have somewhat waxy ears and IEMs seem to exacerbate that. In any event, from my demo of HD800s, I can't really see many areas that one could improve, and certainly from a comfort point of view I'd rather avoid IEMs, even custom fit ones...

But then I am not you.
post #81 of 97
I don't post here much but I'd like to add something.

I tune Sound quality competition cars, not for a living as their is just not enough work, but it's a passion I have and I'm pretty good at it. In a car we do a lot of spectrum analysis and testing, I have so many hours on RTA's in home and car I wore out my first laptop. I see a fair amount of emphasis here about freq response... but truly flat response is usually not preferred. The ear has a natural affinity to certain frequencies, and a distaste for others, so unless you are listening to pink noise all the time it's not that important. I believe that is proven by how much tubes are loved in home hi-fi/head-fi. Added distortion, and people love it (myself included) we just find EOH distortion pleasing. But we shouldn't, as it's not true to the source. Any transducer can be the same way.

I can hear 20k but many people actually cannot, and beyond 22k almost no one can. It also contributes to little of what you are hearing in almost any music. Same applies to the very bottom end. I can see how it plays a role in the decision making process, but it should be weighted far less than many other aspects. In my experience, even people with good ears, don't hear 20hz, they hear what 20hz does to the room around them, rattling, buzzing, shaking etc. In a room with no such problems and a concrete floor, you struggle to turn it into a tone. In most practical applications, a true 20hz = environmental distortion which is displeasing. A rolloff would be interpreted as "better" What you see on a graph, (anyone can "see" 20 and 20k) and what you hear is different. Your ears may not get any environmental distortion (used to be called E.D....not anymore), but once again, it's so far down in your range it won't translate to much. I'ts like a car that can go from 350 mph to 375 in 1 second, looks good on paper, but not much beyond that.

Whether or not any of the headphones in this thread reach or surpass their claimed response I have no idea, but so little of the ends of that freq resp line formulate what we hear as a whole, especially considering that a lot of people's ability to pick those up rolls off earlier than they think, it's not indicative of much beyond that graph.
post #82 of 97
Why am I posting this?
because possibly the sens needed some working in time or my ears were not listening to the bass in full, nor the intimacy of near reality of female voice when well recorded. And gave raving reviews to JH 13, which in comparison I now regret having rated them that high.
Before I had bought the sens someone at Head-Fi suggested that they had inadequate bass, but that is untrue for most music. Certainly with Organ music the Audiophile speakers, and amps, will out do the head set, just because of the size of the room which is needed to reproduce the long waves of near 20 cycles/sec but as I said you will just not care because all other instruments give super fine performance. and the JH 13 don't even have much base at all.



I have bought Senheser HD 800 and Corda Symphony 2 head amplifier.

As well as Amp3 player from China, and JH 13 custom earplugs from Jerry Harvey. Near August 2009.

Listening to both of those head sets with the Corda Symphony 2 head amp connected to my computer with a Variable Bit rate lassie recording.
1. There is no doubt in my mind now that the JH 13 have hardly any bass and that the sens have very adequate satisfying bass.

2. That female voice sang softly into microphone was as if singing really behind my head with the sens and it was not that intimate nor as extremely personal with JH 13

3. That the entire sound stage seemed deep wide and very seamless
extremely engaging and pleasing, with the Sens HD 800, but was narrower with seems and the depth and width was just so so nothing to brag about. The JH 13 are very accurate and serve me well in my driving but I have no interest in listening the them at home when I want a full range deep wide and pleasing sounds of near perfection from the sens.

I would give the sens and A rating that makes me never needing to look or lust for a different pair. While the JH 13 seemed a bit more solid state like and in comparison I would rate then as b or b-

I have never heard ear buds better but when comparing to the sens HD800 well they smoke the heck out of the JH 13
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post #83 of 97
Thread Starter 
^^^ Thanks for your succinct and informative impressions. Persuasive indeed.
post #84 of 97
The JH 13 Pro would be a great investment, if I were constantly on the move. As funny as this sounds, I dislike using IEMs and headphones portably. Some people stare at me and I wonder what they are thinking. If my phone rings, I don't hear it and I usually don't feel it vibrating either. I have to use both IEMs in my ears, as it defeats the purpose of spending $380 on the in the first place if I only use one at a time. If my friends are at the same shopping centre as me etc and they see me there, they will probably shout out to me, and I won't be able to hear them :| I think I am going to have to stick to full size headphones...
post #85 of 97
You really must have a fit problem to say that the jh-13s dont have much bass, even iPodPJ said that the jh-13's had more bass than the HD800's, and they certainly do have quite a bit of bass, though not overpowering in any way.

But i do enjoy reading your comparison
post #86 of 97
How about comparing the JH16 with HD800?
post #87 of 97
This audiophile world is confusing me.

An IEM beat a legendary dynamic phone and is in the same class w/ some legendary electrostatic.

iPod out of all suddens, turns out to be a pretty nice source. Some posts made me think I don't need to upgrade source at all if I have an iPhone 3GS which I actually have. Well, while so many people say that "there is no point of having a best headphone and amp but feeding them w/ a crap source, for example: an iPod" (I can't think of any worse source than an iPhone except some cheap China portable CDP if price is a measurement).

I still don't know how good the bass JH13 can represent but it's hard to swallow if someone tells me that my ear can feel the vibration of deep bass produced by this baby monster. And without the feeling of vibration, the bass is less atractive, IMHO.

I hate to say this but sometimes informations from Head-Fi is so confusing. Well, again, each person hears differently.

Don't get me wrong on that, I learned a lot from head-fiers here and I will keep learning
post #88 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post
You really must have a fit problem to say that the jh-13s dont have much bass, even iPodPJ said that the jh-13's had more bass than the HD800's, and they certainly do have quite a bit of bass, though not overpowering in any way.

But i do enjoy reading your comparison
I was thinking the same thing. You really need a proper seal to get good sound (especially bass) from IEMs.
post #89 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyHoney View Post
This audiophile world is confusing me.

iPod out of all suddens, turns out to be a pretty nice source.
It may indeed seem that way, but I think the most accurate information on this (I'm sure someone will correct me if this is wrong!) is that if you can bypass completely the inner workings of an iPod (and a company has to be licenced to do this by Apple), and you have Lossless files on your iPod, you can produce bit perfect digital files from the iPod for an external DAC to convert to analogue - and voila, great music. Wadia is one example of a company that has such an agreement with Apple. Another alternative, which my understanding is an improvement on using the headphone jack, but not perfect, is to use the line-out from your iPod, by adding a connector, such as the 'Sendstation' product. There are also different "iMods" that address these same issues, i.e bypassing some/all of the inner workings of iPods. Hope this helps. I share your frustration at times, reading so many different threads on issues.
post #90 of 97
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyHoney View Post
This audiophile world is confusing me.

An IEM beat a legendary dynamic phone and is in the same class w/ some legendary electrostatic.

iPod out of all suddens, turns out to be a pretty nice source. Some posts made me think I don't need to upgrade source at all if I have an iPhone 3GS which I actually have. Well, while so many people say that "there is no point of having a best headphone and amp but feeding them w/ a crap source, for example: an iPod" (I can't think of any worse source than an iPhone except some cheap China portable CDP if price is a measurement).

I still don't know how good the bass JH13 can represent but it's hard to swallow if someone tells me that my ear can feel the vibration of deep bass produced by this baby monster. And without the feeling of vibration, the bass is less atractive, IMHO.

I hate to say this but sometimes informations from Head-Fi is so confusing. Well, again, each person hears differently.

Don't get me wrong on that, I learned a lot from head-fiers here and I will keep learning
"Give me a headphone and I'll start a war, if you give me sound worth fighting for".
- Coldplay

I understand completely why the audiophile world is confusing to you. After reading what you wrote, I had to get off of the computer to think about what you said because I thought that your observations were perceptive and accurate. First off, just because the JH-13 Pro is beating the HD800 on this poll, does not mean that the JH-13 Pro is superior, as you know. It is all about preferences and even prejudices, not actualities. I have been on this forum now for a couple of years, and people are constantly surprised that I have no headphones. Instead, I am contented with my iPod Classic and IE8. Why? Because I have yet to hear any headphone system that approaches the sound of live music. The flip side of the coin is that because I do not collect headphones or headphone equipment, I can not listen to these systems as critically as I would like. Maybe there is a system out there that will make my iPod and IE8 sound like a Victrola but I haven't heard it yet. In the last few years, I think the greatest leap in audiophile listening has been with IEM's and not with full-sized systems. If I had my druthers, instead of spending multi-thousand dollars on a full-sized headphone system, I would probably purchase the JH-13 Pro or the forthcoming JH-16 Pro. How much better the JH-13 Pro is than my IE8, I don't know. Will the JH-13 Pro bring me closer to live music? Probably not. Perhaps after the JH-13 Pro, the next step I would take, would be to purchase the HiFiMan HM-801. I heard the HM-801 at the headphone meet this last weekend in New York, and I was very impressed with its sound. The HM-801 also made me appreciate the IE8 even more as the IE8 scaled up beautifully. I listened to many systems at the headphone meet yet the HM-801 and IE8, to my ears, was some of the best sound at the show. In fact, I walked away from the show with new found respect for my humble iPod/IE8 combo (despite the iPod's inferior DAC). Another impression I walked away with was that perhaps electrostatic headphones and planar headphones (such as the HiFiMan HE-500) might be the wave of the future in full-sized headphone technology (since I have very little experience with these headphones, I am unsure). I guess what I am trying to say with all of this is that there is no substitution for live music. The most humble headphone system is far closer to the best headphone system than the best headphone system is to live music. Maybe someday there will be a headphone that will render all previous headphones obsolete. It needs to happen at some point. I just haven't heard it yet. Give me a headphone that sounds like live music and that will be a headphone that will start a war.
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