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Wadia 170i transport+ipod classic vs. usb drive

post #1 of 20
8/13/09 at 11:28pm
Thread Starter 
I already have an ipod classic 120gb and am tempted to buy the Wadia transport in order to be able to use the ipod on my home stereo system. My receiver, the Denon 4310CI also has a usb input so if I buy a usb hard drive instead of the Wadia transport I could use the drive to listen to my music.

It looks like the latter course would be much more cost effective. Am wondering if there is any SQ advantage to using the Wadia+ipod system that would justify the extra cost?
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post #2 of 20
8/14/09 at 12:09am
I don't know all too much about the Wadia or your receiver, but as far as I'm aware, the only real reason to go with the Wadia would be if you had an external DAC. The Wadia allows the music to be pulled off of your ipod in straight digital, then you're free to process it however you'd like. If you're fine with the ipod's internal DAC, a much, much (, MUCH) cheaper solution would just be to get a LOD with RCA outputs and hook them up straight to one of your receiver's auxiliary ports. I'm pretty sure they sell things like that at RadioShack.
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post #3 of 20
8/14/09 at 12:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss View Post
I don't know all too much about the Wadia or your receiver, but as far as I'm aware, the only real reason to go with the Wadia would be if you had an external DAC. The Wadia allows the music to be pulled off of your ipod in straight digital, then you're free to process it however you'd like. If you're fine with the ipod's internal DAC, a much, much (, MUCH) cheaper solution would just be to get a LOD with RCA outputs and hook them up straight to one of your receiver's auxiliary ports. I'm pretty sure they sell things like that at RadioShack.
Thanks for the reply.
Am not really happy with the ipod's internal DAC. So I see that as a good reason for going the Wadia route because I'm pretty sure the DAC's in my home receiver are much better than the Ipod's.

But am wondering if that is any better than simply getting a usb hard drive, copying my music onto it and using the usb connection into my receiver? Is that going to sound as good as using the Wadia with the ipod?
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post #4 of 20
8/14/09 at 1:28am
I kind of doubt your receiver has a DAC that you can route digital signals to. It's possible that I'm wrong, but I've just never seen that functionality on a receiver before. Therefore, if you got the Wadia and hooked it up directly to your receiver, the Wadia would actually be using your ipod's DAC anyway, and would offer no benefits over the LOD to RCA solution I proposed. Again, the only real reason for getting the Wadia is if you already had a kick-ass external DAC, and wanted to feed the bit-perfect output from an ipod into it. Since you don't have an external DAC, you shouldn't go for the Wadia, unless of course you want to make another expensive purchase (DAC).

As far as the USB hard drive solution...I really couldn't tell you how it would sound, as I've never heard it. Maybe throw a few files on a thumbdrive and test it out. It seems to me like that would add a whole extra layer of complexity for managing your files though. It's incredibly convenient to just plug your ipod right into your system and not have to deal with all of that. And I can't imagine you'd get that much of a sound quality boost anyway: the ipod's DAC is pretty decent. Might as well just spend a few bucks on cables and give it a shot before you decide on anything too drastic.
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post #5 of 20
8/14/09 at 9:49am
Thread Starter 
tapehiss,
The receiver does have its own DAC. Don't all AVR's have them?
I have tried plugging the ipod directly into the receiver through its usb connection, but the result is not equal to CD quality sound. Guess that is because the ipod's own DAC is still being used.
But I like your suggestion about the thumb drive. Thanks.
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post #6 of 20
8/14/09 at 10:08am
Many audio/video receivers have a DAC which can be fed from external sources via optical or coaxial, my 7 year old Yamaha has one. Some also have USB inputs.
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post #7 of 20
8/14/09 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssnake51 View Post
I have tried plugging the ipod directly into the receiver through its usb connection, but the result is not equal to CD quality sound. Guess that is because the ipod's own DAC is still being used.
USB is a digital transport so the ipod dac should be bypassed and the DAC in the component is doing the conversion to an analog signal. There is circuitry to convert USB to another format that the rest of the receiver uses, and that may be degrading the signal in your comparisons.

There are 'good' and 'bad' implementations just like headphone jacks on receivers. If usb was added just to get another bullet point on the marketing specs, the manufacturer may cut corners.

Also, did you use lossless encoding when ripping the original CD to the ipod? If there was lossy encoding it will not be the 'same' comparing it to the CD itself.

I believe I read somewhere that the selling point of the Wadia was that it bypassed the ipod DAC through some deal cut with Apple. Not having one makes it difficult to confirm/deny.
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post #8 of 20
8/14/09 at 11:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsborken View Post
USB is a digital transport so the ipod dac should be bypassed and the DAC in the component is doing the conversion to an analog signal. There is circuitry to convert USB to another format that the rest of the receiver uses, and that may be degrading the signal in your comparisons.

There are 'good' and 'bad' implementations just like headphone jacks on receivers. If usb was added just to get another bullet point on the marketing specs, the manufacturer may cut corners.

Also, did you use lossless encoding when ripping the original CD to the ipod? If there was lossy encoding it will not be the 'same' comparing it to the CD itself.

I believe I read somewhere that the selling point of the Wadia was that it bypassed the ipod DAC through some deal cut with Apple. Not having one makes it difficult to confirm/deny.
Yes the files were lossless: wav rips of some CD's I have.
I could very well be mistaken, but I believe that sending the signal out through the ipod's usb cord will not circumvent the ipods internal DAC. If it were that easy to circumvent, then I wonder why Wadia would have gone through the trouble to develop their transport.

It would be simpler for me to get the transport as I already have my music organized on the ipod classic 120gb. But then I got to wondering whether I couldn't buy a much cheaper usb hard drive and use that with (hopefully) the same SQ.
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post #9 of 20
8/14/09 at 4:09pm
The concept of a DAC is digital in, analog out. USB is a serial bus so maybe it's possible the 'DAC' is still in the loop providing some form of digital-digital timing corrections or conversions. The idea of putting analog out through the USB connection doesn't fit the architecture.

Another possibility is to get an Apple TV and just serve up your music from your PC to it. ATV comes with toslink and that can go directly into your receiver. The downside is you need a TV or monitor to use the ATV's interface to operate it. If I didn't have that already I would have gotten the Wadia.
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post #10 of 20
8/14/09 at 4:11pm
Just buy a media streamer, that way you can have TB of music in lossy. Why bother with pathetic 120GB when you can have 2TB or more?
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post #11 of 20
8/14/09 at 4:28pm
if its using USB, its not using the ipod dac, so if it sounds like crap, its the DAC that sounds like crap and the wadia is unlikely to sound much better. unless of course it is the USB->PCM conversion that is badly implemented in which case a USB HD or thumbdrive will sound just as bad.
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post #12 of 20
8/14/09 at 5:59pm
Currently what I've been doing is hooking up my
iPod 120G using 'Shack's rca converter cable to
a Pioneer Elite A-35R integrated amp. So far, what
I've noticed, which seems strange to me, is that
when running the Pioneer in Direct mode, the
iPod's Wolfson sounds better through the Direct
mode than through the Pioneer's system in
non-Direct mode. Not sure why, however the
difference is only slightly better...but still. It
surprised me.

I want to see what kind of DAC Wadia releases
first & hear the reviews about it. I think I'd rather
get Wadia's DAC first if I was going to get the
170i transport to go with it. You can use that DAC
for other things aside from the iPod so it'll still
have a use without the 170i & be a Wadia. :-)
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post #13 of 20
8/14/09 at 6:05pm
Direct mode bypasses the tone controls, my Arcam Alpha 9 has the same feature. Also you should really use line out from ipod, not 3.5mm to stereo RCA (headphone)
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post #14 of 20
8/14/09 at 6:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriverdude View Post
Direct mode bypasses the tone controls, my Arcam Alpha 9 has the same feature. Also you should really use line out from ipod, not 3.5mm to stereo RCA (headphone)
I don't have an iPod dock yet, but I see what
you mean. This was just a make-shift solution
so I could make use of my Pioneer Elite right
away. The Elite is at a different location than
my other configurations listed in my sig & is
parked right next to a PC that I have there.
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post #15 of 20
8/14/09 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriverdude View Post
Just buy a media streamer, that way you can have TB of music in lossy. Why bother with pathetic 120GB when you can have 2TB or more?
I wish I had enough CDs to fill such a thing. Several hundred would hardly put a dent in it.
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