Headamp Blue Hawaii Special Edition - Page 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by townes 

before the arrival of the BHSE... can someone recommend me a reasonable and good cable?

 

I am looking for an RCA interconnect, length=1.5m

Price should be less than $1000.

 

I would use it here '???':

Weiss DAC1Mk2 > NBS Monitor (XLR) > Spectral DM20Mk2 Preamp > RCA out ??? > BHSE > Stax SR-009

 

I was thinking about a Cardas Golden Reference, but this is close to $1500 (1.5m). Perhaps there's a cheaper cable, which is still excellent?

Most basic - Mogami 2549 with Eichman ETI or Cardas non magnetic & non inductive connectors(you will have to get them made). You will be surprised.

Readily available cable recommendation - Crimson RM-Music Link http://www.austinhifi.com/crimsoncables.html). I use this from my source to my preamp. The best bang for buck cable i have tried under the 1500$ category.

More to spend?? - ASI Liveline or Audio Magic cables.

Echoing ASR, go balanced if you can, in which case, basic Mogami 2549 with neutrik connectors are brilliant. 45$ shipped for a 2m pair of these, unbeatable.
 

Redco also has a nice 'design your own custom cable' option that doesn't break the bank.

Many thanks for your answers, mainly Asr and sachu.

I think, I will order a Crimson RM-Music with RCA. Price is ca 400 for 1.5m

It's a pity but I cannot use a balanced cable here. My preamp has only one balanced output, which is already in use (Classe DR-9 Poweramp > Apogee Duetta speakers)

Quote:

Originally Posted by townes 

Many thanks for your answers, mainly Asr and sachu.

 

I think, I will order a Crimson RM-Music with RCA. Price is ca 400 for 1.5m

 

It's a pity but I cannot use a balanced cable here. My preamp has only one balanced output, which is already in use (Classe DR-9 Poweramp > Apogee Duetta speakers)

i would not worry too much about not using balanced interconnects; it is very rare that they even sound as good as single ended (RCA) interconnects unless the run is quite a bit over 2 meters (6 feet).

balanced interconnects always require more 'stuff' in the signal path; which is pretty much always bad. and with highly resolving gear like a BHSE and the 009's you will hear all that 'stuff' come between you and the music.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossback 

balanced interconnects always require more 'stuff' in the signal path; which is pretty much always bad. and with highly resolving gear like a BHSE and the 009's you will hear all that 'stuff' come between you and the music.

 

I wholeheartedly DISagree. Most DAC chips output balanced signals natively, and require additional circuitry or transformers to drop the signal to an unbalanced signal. And if your amp is a proper balanced/differential design - which the BHSE is - you are losing absolutely nothing at the amp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by townes 

Many thanks for your answers, mainly Asr and sachu.

 

I think, I will order a Crimson RM-Music with RCA. Price is ca 400 for 1.5m

 

It's a pity but I cannot use a balanced cable here. My preamp has only one balanced output, which is already in use (Classe DR-9 Poweramp > Apogee Duetta speakers)

aww man.. love the duettas..I almost drove up to Yakima, WA, to buy a set of mint Duetta Signatures, but after laying out cutouts of the speakers on the floor, they just wouldn't have worked in my living room.. The Divas will always be my dream set of speakers..but for those, I need to upgrade to a new house first! :)

THe R M music link is a great cable without going into silly figures (although to some even 400 is silly). I was turned on to them by a fellow Indian audio buddy of mine. And I got Equus to try a pair, and now he uses it in his headphone rig as well and far as i can tell, is pretty pleased with them. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossback 

i would not worry too much about not using balanced interconnects; it is very rare that they even sound as good as single ended (RCA) interconnects unless the run is quite a bit over 2 meters (6 feet).

 

balanced interconnects always require more 'stuff' in the signal path; which is pretty much always bad. and with highly resolving gear like a BHSE and the 009's you will hear all that 'stuff' come between you and the music.
 

 

What is this stuff?  Ironically I am making xlr interconnects atm!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beefy 

 

I wholeheartedly DISagree. Most DAC chips output balanced signals natively, and require additional circuitry or transformers to drop the signal to an unbalanced signal. And if your amp is a proper balanced/differential design - which the BHSE is - you are losing absolutely nothing at the amp.

whether a particular dac chip outputs a balanced signal is not relevant. it's the design of the analog output stage of the digital source that determines how the XLR output is implemented. and in the case of Townes digital unit, the Weiss DAC1 Mk2 (per the Weiss home page),<<<< " The outputs are symmetrical, but do not have any sound degrading servo mechanisms built in. For asymmetrical operation only one leg of the XLR connector (plus ground) is used">>>>. so even though his Weiss has an XLR output it outputs a single ended signal.

i don't know about the circuit design of the BHSE and will take your word for it.

i've found that almost every time i compare interconnect performance no matter the circuit design i prefer the single ended (RCA) to balanced (XLR). and i've done many comparisons over the years.

that is just my personal experience. especially in a 1.5m case, no worries either way. which was my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis 

What is this stuff?  Ironically I am making xlr interconnects atm!

when you see an XLR input/output on electronics there are 2 possibilies. either it has twice the circuit and is a true differential design, or it has a transformer to integrate into a single ended circuit. either way there is more 'stuff'.

OTOH a single ended design using a single ended output avoids those particular issues.

most times i can hear that 'stuff'....and prefer not to.

not to say that great fully differential designs don't exist where a balanced interconnect might not be superior. i've rarely heard that happen....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossback 
i would not worry too much about not using balanced interconnects; it is very rare that they even sound as good as single ended (RCA) interconnects unless the run is quite a bit over 2 meters (6 feet).

 

balanced interconnects always require more 'stuff' in the signal path; which is pretty much always bad.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossback 
whether a particular dac chip outputs a balanced signal is not relevant. it's the design of the analog output stage of the digital source that determines how the XLR output is implemented. and in the case of Townes digital unit, the Weiss DAC1 Mk2 (per the Weiss home page),<<<< " The outputs are symmetrical, but do not have any sound degrading servo mechanisms built in. For asymmetrical operation only one leg of the XLR connector (plus ground) is used">>>>. so even though his Weiss has an XLR output it outputs a single ended signal.

 

i've found that almost every time i compare interconnect performance no matter the circuit design i prefer the single ended (RCA) to balanced (XLR). and i've done many comparisons over the years.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossback 
when you see an XLR input/output on electronics there are 2 possibilies. either it has twice the circuit and is a true differential design, or it has a transformer to integrate into a single ended circuit. either way there is more 'stuff'.

 

OTOH a single ended design using a single ended output avoids those particular issues.

 

most times i can hear that 'stuff'....and prefer not to.

 

not to say that great fully differential designs don't exist where a balanced interconnect might not be superior. i've rarely heard that happen....

No offense here but you seem to be completely unaware that all 3 of your posts are complete misinformation on balanced vs unbalanced, and I'm not talking about just interconnects either.

As I don't want to hijack the thread and responding to your posts will just hijack it further, I'm just going to recommend here that anyone who wants to seriously learn about balanced equipment read about it elsewhere and not on Head-Fi. There are plenty of accurate online sources to research the subject from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossback 

whether a particular dac chip outputs a balanced signal is not relevant. it's the design of the analog output stage of the digital source that determines how the XLR output is implemented. and in the case of Townes digital unit, the Weiss DAC1 Mk2 (per the Weiss home page),<<<< " The outputs are symmetrical, but do not have any sound degrading servo mechanisms built in. For asymmetrical operation only one leg of the XLR connector (plus ground) is used">>>>. so even though his Weiss has an XLR output it outputs a single ended signal.

Actually, it is completely relevant. Something has extra to be done to the output to get the unbalanced signal.

So what you said is wrong. Nothing is put 'into' the signal path to get balanced to work, but rather usually the other way around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossback 

when you see an XLR input/output on electronics there are 2 possibilies. either it has twice the circuit and is a true differential design, or it has a transformer to integrate into a single ended circuit. either way there is more 'stuff'.

 

OTOH a single ended design using a single ended output avoids those particular issues.

 

most times i can hear that 'stuff'....and prefer not to.

 

not to say that great fully differential designs don't exist where a balanced interconnect might not be superior. i've rarely heard that happen....

 

Ummmmmm, no.

BH is "true differential" input with balanced output - though you may want the "extra" sections in quad/balanced volume control to retain balanced input Z with balanced input signal

personally I'd consider running pure digital volume control with today's best 130 dB S/N DAC - save $$$ on fancy volume pots

most "flagship" audio DAC chips today have differential I/V output, datasheet circuits most often show 2 op amp I/V circuits for +,- polarity DAC out, then op amp diff to SE converter

however few app circuits show fully balanced output  - they usually put most of the image rejection/reconstruction filter in the diff to SE op amp circuit

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcx 

BH is "true differential" input with balanced output - though you may want the "extra" sections in quad/balanced volume control to retain balanced input Z with balanced input signal

 

personally I'd consider running pure digital volume control with today's best 130 dB S/N DAC - save $$$ on fancy volume pots

 

most "flagship" audio DAC chips today have differential I/V output, datasheet circuits most often show 2 op amp I/V circuits for +,- polarity DAC out, then op amp diff to SE converter

 

however few app circuits show fully balanced output  - they usually put most of the image rejection/reconstruction filter in the diff to SE op amp circuit

Indeed. This is what i was trying to get out, but rushing it.

I think that Mossback is getting in a tizz because of 1) the poor distinction between what should really be called unbalanced (an RCA connection) versus a single-ended output design that some prefer and 2) general misunderstanding.

Thanks, Justin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin w. 

I saw the progress on the amps boards / assembly today, and it looks like it would be end of next week at the earliest before I have them