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K1000 reminds you of what speakers?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I don't have a very good speaker setup at home, so my high-end inclinations are focused on headphones. However, at a local Wilson dealer I have heard several Wilson model speakers, including the top-of-the-line Alexandria. I have been very, very impressed by those. The resolution is un-freakin-believable.

However, I know that many people disagree with Wilsons. Some speaker designers use opposite approaches entirely. (Wilson likes very dead cabinet walls; Audio Note speakers deliberately use resonant cabinets.)

Nevertheless, the Alexandrias impressed me so much, I found it hard to believe that "better" exists somewhere.

Now that I've heard the K1000, I've discovered a new quality---a kind of "liveliness." Perhaps the Wilsons don't have this. I'm starting to realize that other speakers could, perhaps, be more "alive" than Wilsons---the music would jump out at you, the rhythm would be infectious, etc.

I thought it would be interesting to ask people here if the K1000 reminds them of any particular speaker brand. Not necessarily in exact sound, but more in philosophy.

(I haven't heard my friend Don North's speakers in a while. I really want to hear them again with his new amps and see if they have some of this liveliness that perhaps Wilsons miss.)
post #2 of 23
Have no idea, think depends on amp using with them
post #3 of 23
When I first heard the K1000 with my Audio Note Kit 1 300B SET amplifier, it immediately reminded me of my big speakers which are bi-amped with AN 2A3 SET on the mids & tweeter. The K1000/Kit 1 had similar clarity, purity, and "you are there" immediacy as I hear with my speaker system. I was instantly hooked!
post #4 of 23
Most decent phones will outperform speakers costing 4-10 times as much in fequency response and lack of distortion.

Another factor that few people acknlowledge is the lack of interchannel distortion whereby speakers mess up the stereo image. Speakers create "phantom channels" of signals whereby, for example the left channel feeds the right era and vice-versa with a slight time delay. Thus you get 4 channels of sound from 2 speakers, two of them time delayed and which will interefere the two correct signals. These phantom channels are complete artifacts and hence unnatural, compared to headphones which provide a pure left and right channel signal to the correct ear.

Headphones are generally free of this although some must occur in an open back design allthough at massively reduced level compared to speakers where the cross-talk signal is more or less equal in volume.
post #5 of 23
Ed, this is precisely what is wonderful about speakers. If music was mastered on headphones, it would be an issue, but it's not. Since it's mastered on speakers, "phantom channels" are extremely desirable. I'd like to think my speaker setup has hundreds of them -- everywhere a musician actually sat.
post #6 of 23
Mike, if you want the same coherency as a K-1000, you might want to look into singledrivers. One of the wonderful things about headphones is that they only use one driver. Most speakers use multiple drivers and those typically don't have the same phase and time coherency as singledrivers. Some of the better known ones that might interest you are the Jordan JX92S and various Lowthers. Fostex makes a range of terrific singledrivers, as well. You might want to keep an eye on Eddie Current - Craig is working on a successor to the Cicada. The Cicada is similar to a Lowther, but at a much, much better price.

If you like the open, airy sound of the K-1000, you might also want to look into a planar. I know you like classical, so something like a Quad, Magnepan, Martin Logan, or Apogee might make you very happy. Also, keep an eye out for a pair of used ESS AMTs locally - I occasionally see them for sale around here. The drawback with them is that they use a 1970s woofer, but there are several modern ones that give wonderful performance. I upgraded the pair I had for about $80 and they drastically improved. Considering that the old ESS units sell for $300-$400, they're one of the best things going. An AMT throws out a wonderful soundstage, one you'll have to pay thousands to duplicate. My parents have the AMTs now (they really needed new speakers) and are thrilled with them.

I've found bliss with the Quad ESL-63. Their mids might not be as magical as the ESL-57, but I've heard the ESL-57 and think the ESL-63 is a better performer overall. The mids might not have the same gorgeous tonality, but it isn't easy to find fault with them. If you can find a used pair locally, I think you'd love them.

The other benefit to planars is their gorgeous soundstage. Only the real thing rivals what a dipole can do. You'll hear voices and instruments appear from seemingly nowhere and their transient response is frighteningly convincing. I think something along these lines would make you very happy. If I stumble across a pair for sale locally, I'll PM you.
post #7 of 23
A pair of Final 300i.
Magical top end, midrange and sound stage. But a bit rolled off in the lower end...

post #8 of 23
Quote:
Most decent phones will outperform speakers costing 4-10 times as much in fequency response and lack of distortion.
That's a myth dreamt up my headphone crowd.
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriverdude View Post
That's a myth dreamt up my headphone crowd.
I'm going to have to agree with this on the FR front. Though headphones do tend to have it easier when it comes to distortion . . . Also the cost of treating an average room for speakers is certainly not cheap either.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriverdude View Post
That's a myth dreamt up my headphone crowd.
Really? Please elaborate.. are you talking about frequency response curve, the amount of details that can be heard, etc..?
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
Mike, if you want the same coherency as a K-1000, you might want to look into singledrivers. One of the wonderful things about headphones is that they only use one driver. Most speakers use multiple drivers and those typically don't have the same phase and time coherency as singledrivers. Some of the better known ones that might interest you are the Jordan JX92S and various Lowthers. Fostex makes a range of terrific singledrivers, as well. You might want to keep an eye on Eddie Current - Craig is working on a successor to the Cicada. The Cicada is similar to a Lowther, but at a much, much better price.

If you like the open, airy sound of the K-1000, you might also want to look into a planar. I know you like classical, so something like a Quad, Magnepan, Martin Logan, or Apogee might make you very happy. Also, keep an eye out for a pair of used ESS AMTs locally - I occasionally see them for sale around here. The drawback with them is that they use a 1970s woofer, but there are several modern ones that give wonderful performance. I upgraded the pair I had for about $80 and they drastically improved. Considering that the old ESS units sell for $300-$400, they're one of the best things going. An AMT throws out a wonderful soundstage, one you'll have to pay thousands to duplicate. My parents have the AMTs now (they really needed new speakers) and are thrilled with them.

I've found bliss with the Quad ESL-63. Their mids might not be as magical as the ESL-57, but I've heard the ESL-57 and think the ESL-63 is a better performer overall. The mids might not have the same gorgeous tonality, but it isn't easy to find fault with them. If you can find a used pair locally, I think you'd love them.

The other benefit to planars is their gorgeous soundstage. Only the real thing rivals what a dipole can do. You'll hear voices and instruments appear from seemingly nowhere and their transient response is frighteningly convincing. I think something along these lines would make you very happy. If I stumble across a pair for sale locally, I'll PM you.
Thanks, Uncle Erik. Good information. Looks like the ESL-63 runs about $800, so that's doable. The ESS AMT look really interesting. I actually didn't mean to imply I'm actively looking for speakers right now. I have no place to put them.. but I will be moving within a year.
post #12 of 23
I am running a set of Magnaplan MG12s in a fairly small space. They and my K-1000s have much similarity in sound and sense of realism, IMO.
post #13 of 23
Mike, if a good deal turns up you could always stick them in a corner or a closet until you have the space. I only have room for one pair right now, but am planning to move somewhere bigger when prices bottom out. I'm keeping the extra pairs around because I'll set up second and third systems in other rooms.
post #14 of 23
Please keep in mind that it is pretty uncommon for you to get a set of 63's in good condition for that price; you'll find the average price for a good condition set is about $1150. Many of the old Quads will need some repairing done to help with hiss, hum, pops, channel imbalance, or complete arcing. As such, I'd highly recommend auditioning the specific pair you consider buying to make sure you know what condition the pair is really in. A pair got put up on agon today near us, but one is arced: AudiogoN ForSale: Quad ESL-63
post #15 of 23
The ESL-63s are a great, if somewhat limited in the low end, speaker. You MUST listen to any that you want to buy (for reasons stated above) and repairs will be neither simple nor cheap. I have a pair of 989s and they are wonderful (similar to the 63s, except with more bass and bigger).
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