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triple fi: coherent sound? - Page 3

post #31 of 54
Although I was origionally responding to your mistaken idea that the OP was hearing different frequencies in different ears we can continue with crossovers, a subject not well understood (by me anyways) as it pertains to IEMs. You are correct that first order crossovers will produce minimum phase shift. 90 degrees in fact. The problem is that you cannot reverse the polarity of the driver to compensate. The more complicated and larger second order will create a phase shift of 180 degrees that can be compensated for (match the phase of the other driver) by reversing polarity. Cool. Another problem, as you know, with the first order crossover is that it has twice the overlap of the second order crossover.
I don't really know anything about the BA drivers used in many IEMs as far as their natural dampening outside their optimum frequency range and how this can be used to reduce crossover needs. Most of my limited knowlege of audio transducer design and function is based on larger loudspeaker components operating significantly farther from the ear than IEMs. I'm sure there are some important considerations due to these factors. (Soundstage, crosstalk, imaging??).
As far as UE's marketing of sound tubes and such... well, that's what it is... marketing. Although, there are some interesting threads with people constructing long chains of IEM tips that they swear improves SQ significantly. I am intrigued, but not interested in surrendering my self respect beyond the "you got a bean in your ear" triple.fis.
I am also intrigued by the potential for IEMs of single dynamic driver such as the IE8 that can do a pretty good job of replicating the full audio spectrum with acceptable linearity, a virtual point source, very little standing waves (I assume) in the cone, and no phase hassles or crossovers or problems with dumping the rear radiation.
As far as the OP, I wonder if you notice this frequency separation problem with white noise (I refuse to visualize pink noise) or if it is more noticible on any special kind of music.
Sandy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post
In loudspeaker design, phase coherence issues show up when speakers are "out of phase," that is, when one driver is pushing while another is pulling. This can be caused in a single-driver setup if two wide-range drivers are out of phase (wired up with reversed polarities). It can be caused in two-way and three-way setups when the drivers along the vertical axis are wired out of phase (again, one drive pushing while another is pulling) as well as if the left and right sides are wired out of phase (with reversed polarities).

As far as crossovers are concerned, the phase issues show up in second-, third-, fourth- and higher-order crossovers. A gentle-sloping first-order crossover - which is the kind used with the Triple Fi's - is the least problematic when it comes to phase issues. As for driver overlap, that creates frequency bumps, not phase issues. If these earphones are having phase issues, it's because of faulty wiring, not a first-order crossover. But I'm skeptical even of that. A few millimeters of dual-bore technology may impress somebody, but I think it's a mirage. I had Triple Fi's. I didn't hear any difference. What's more, in experimenting with my own drivers (and using dual-bore sound tubing) I heard no difference, and certainly not some bass coming from a completely different area than the treble. I think this is consumer hypnosis.
post #32 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZARIM View Post
I think you should try CK100 and many ER4P users seems to love these IEMs
I checked these out and they sound like they have sound signature I'd like. What do they typically go for used?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrane View Post
As far as the OP, I wonder if you notice this frequency separation problem with white noise (I refuse to visualize pink noise) or if it is more noticible on any special kind of music.
]

I never tested it with white noise. It was most noticeable with large orchestral pieces. The higher pitched instruments seemed to come from the top of the iem, while the bass instruments seemed to come from the bottom and there was this huge empty space in between.

This may have been a problem unique to the se530 because of it's design (tweeter on top, two bass drivers on bottom). However, based on the responses I've gotten to this thread, it seems like most people don't experience this issue with their se530s, so it makes it difficult for me to judge whether or not I will experience the same issue with the triple fi. I'll probably just have to try them out to see.
post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antony6555 View Post
I checked these out and they sound like they have sound signature I'd like. What do they typically go for used?

]

I never tested it with white noise. It was most noticeable with large orchestral pieces. The higher pitched instruments seemed to come from the top of the iem, while the bass instruments seemed to come from the bottom and there was this huge empty space in between.

This may have been a problem unique to the se530 because of it's design (tweeter on top, two bass drivers on bottom). However, based on the responses I've gotten to this thread, it seems like most people don't experience this issue with their se530s, so it makes it difficult for me to judge whether or not I will experience the same issue with the triple fi. I'll probably just have to try them out to see.
Actually if you wear the Shure SE530's correctly ( wires looped over ear ). The subwoofers are on top and the tweeter is at the bottom.



post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon [09] View Post
Thank You so much Bilavideo! You thought me alot. Just wanted to point out the Shure SE530 has natural bass but rolls off to hard in the treble area though. After 10,000khz it begins to drop past 10db. It should hit a 10db drop off around 20,000khz....correct?
For someone who's never owned IEM's or headphones and only has a laptop as a source you're certainly becoming an expert - at least you're beginning to sound like one. And your very recent interest in the SE530's is quite amazing. You may very well find that the SE530 will outdo ALL IEM's (including, of course the JH13) and ALL full-sized headphones. This post of yours isjust SO true and accurate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon [09] View Post
It was stated before don't judge Shure off of this game....If I had heard their IEM's I would be able to give you my perception on them and whether or not I think they're worth it. After reading a ton of reviews on the Shure SE530, supposedly Shure's top earphone the reviews are about 98% 5 stars. So go with what you think is best for you not what others think.
Excellent impartial advice!

It's almost as if you knew the SE530's quite well. In one of your posts you only mentioned in passing that if you were not getting the JH13's you'd get the UM3X. I wish you showed a little more appreciation for the UM3X. You never talk about them.

Also, your enthusiasm as a newbie is incredible - you're visiting so many threads and starting new ones.

I'm more and more convinced you are Uniqu3 -- and I'm sure others have noticed.

And just noticed you've just posted this as I was writing this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon [09] View Post
Actually if you wear the Shure SE530's correctly ( wires looped over ear ). The subwoofers are on top and the tweeter is at the bottom.



Your interest and - dare I say - love for the SE530's is rapidly growing by the minute. You ARE 100% Uniqu3
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
For someone who's never owned IEM's or headphones and only has a laptop as a source you're certainly becoming an expert - at least you're beginning to sound like one. And your very recent interest in the SE530's is quite amazing. You may very well find that the SE530 will outdo ALL IEM's (including, of course the JH13) and ALL full-sized headphones. This post of yours isjust SO true and accurate:



Excellent impartial advice!

It's almost as if you knew the SE530's quite well. In one of your posts you only mentioned in passing that if you were not getting the JH13's you'd get the UM3X. I wish you showed a little more appreciation for the UM3X. You never talk about them.

Also, your enthusiasm as a newbie is incredible - you're visiting so many threads and starting new ones.

I'm more and more convinced you are Uniqu3 -- and I'm sure others have noticed.

And just noticed you've just posted this as I was writing this post:


Your interest and - dare I say - love for the SE530's is rapidly growing by the minute. You ARE 100% Uniqu3
Headroom teaches you how to interpret headphone frequency graphs. I guess I shouldn't have learned that in less than 30 minutes it wouldn't seem right. Wait the Shure SE530's outperforms the JH13 Pro? Do you own or have you heard the JH13 Pro? I simply typed Shure SE530's in Google and the majority of reviews I came by were 5 stars. Sorry if that's not the best way of finding out an item's overall public rating. Never said I wanted the UM3X. I said if you read correctly and not jump to sudden conclusions that I wanted to go straight for the top and purchase the JH13 Pro but I'm getting confused now you saying the Shure SE530's outperforms it. Then why did Shure get voted off in that game? I guess for someone new to the IEM thing and wants to learn as much as possible before dropping $1,000+ by visiting a lot of threads and posting in them as well as asking questions and making my own is suspicious and bad?

As of now, you are ignored. Don't bother reply towards me. Creepy dude.
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon [09] View Post
Never said I wanted the UM3X
From your 10th post in head-fi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeon [09] View Post
I own nothing at the moment. I'm interesting in just dropping a lump some on one big purchase and ending it right the search for the best earphone and it seems the JH13 Pro is the perfect candidate. I just want to hear some comparisons of the JH13 Pro to cheaper earphones. I want a nuetral sound so I'm also eyeing the Westone UM3X but if the JH13 Pro are supposedly the best and is nuetral than I'll go straight for that.
Quote:
I wanted to go straight for the top and purchase the JH13 Pro but I'm getting confused now you saying the Shure SE530's outperforms it
Apologies if I confused you. What I meant to say was that in YOUR case the SE530 will outperform ALL IEM's/ headphones. I think it's clear from my sig that I have a slight preference for the UM3X and ES3X over the SE530, which I sold after only 4 weeks.

Quote:
I guess for someone new to the IEM thing and wants to learn as much as possible before dropping $1,000+ by visiting a lot of threads and posting in them as well as asking questions and making my own is suspicious and bad?
Oh, no suspicions whatsoever - You are simply Uniqu3 for someone who's considering getting the JH13's, HiFiMAN HM-801, and shown seeming interest in the Benchmark DAC1 HDR or Grace M902. On your very first post and first thread you started 5 days ago (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/bet...5/#post5889416), only on post #4 someone (a respected member of head-fi) posed a very simple & relevant question which you did not even bother to reply to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
Xeon: More usefully, what headphones are you planning to use? That'll help people help you.
Hard to answer such a complicated and personal question, wasn't it? Very strange first and subsequent posts. Later, suddenly out of the blue, on the JH13 thread when I challenged one of your posts you said you'd never owned any IEM's or headphones. Why not the same reply earlier to someone with plenty of experience & willing to help? After all you started that thread and that was your very first post.

Out of your 40+ posts quite a few of the more recent ones have shown a remarkable interest in the SE530. Why not visit those threads where they talk about all the expensive gear you're supposed to be interested in and doing so much research on? You know, the most expensive custom IEM's, the most expensive DAP's, expensive DAC's? Why so much REAL interest in the SE530?

Quote:
As of now, you are ignored. Don't bother reply towards me. Creepy dude
I'm not creepy but you are most certainly Uniqu3. Go and read as many of my 1000 posts and see for yourself I'm not creepy. You remind me SO much of 9/10 very recent new members who, btw, are no longer members of head-fi and who were also utterly Uniqu3.
post #37 of 54
music 4321 this is getting very old and very tired

yes we get your break up with voltag3 hit you really hard but it really time to move on and let things go, stop seeing him every where you go its not healthy.

im sure youll find someone else

post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post
music 4321 this is getting very old and very tired

yes we get your break up with voltag3 hit you really hard but it really time to move on and let things go, stop seeing him every where you go its not healthy.

im sure youll find someone else

Thanks for your support.

This is not to do with any 'break up' with him - I think I'm old enough & mature enough to move on if that was the case.

FYI, whenever I've seen him anywhere round here I've been right every single time and he's been busted eventually. I haven't done it to any other members who turned out NOT to be him.

If this is getting old and tiring for you, perhaps you might want to consider putting me on your ignore list or you might want to become voltag3's solicitor? I know you liked him and even felt sorry for AND admired him for attempting to make a comeback endless times. Perhaps in your eyes I, and not him, should be banned?
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
Thanks for your support.

This is not to do with any 'break up' with him - I think I'm old enough & mature enough to move on if that was the case.

FYI, whenever I've seen him anywhere round here I've been right every single time and he's been busted eventually. I haven't done it to any other members who turned out NOT to be him.

If this is getting old and tiring for you, perhaps you might want to consider putting me on your ignore list or you might want to become voltag3's solicitor? I know you liked him and even felt sorry for AND admired him for attempting to make a comeback endless times. Perhaps in your eyes I, and not him, should be banned?
oh i dont think you should be banned, just that maybe you two need to get a hotel room for a weekend to get it out of your system so you can move on

its just dragging you to his level
post #40 of 54
Mark is right. This is all beginning to sound like a soap opera. This is headfi, not General Hospital. It's one thing to debate a point or two about a pair of headphones (Even I will defend the SE530 though it's not my cup of tea). It's quite another to tear into each other. Our voices may sometimes be a tad shrill, or as someone said of one of my posts, "manic," but there's no reason to go into full character assassination on a thread that was supposed to be about the relative merits of the Triple Fi. If this person you're going after is actually your ex-boyfriend, you just outted yourself. He could be freakin' Caligula and you'd still end up looking like a hysterical shrew.

(Although, all this passion is kinda sexy in and of itself. Now I kinda wish I had an ex who'd hunt me down and pitch a fit in public. Anybody worth calling a son of a b----- in public must have done something to stoke that much heat.)

On a forum which often resembles boys-and-their-toys fights over which lowrider has the coolest hubcaps, the accusation that somebody is an audio poseur is a little like showing up at a Dunkin' Donuts and announcing that Customer X is sporting a muffin top. We get it but we're not amused. It's already hysterical that we come here and fight over which piece of molded plastic sounds the most like a good pair of loudspeakers, or that we drop everything to own the next little Jesus in an ear canal. But to come here to rip into each other - let alone stalk the ex - is totally goofy. Get over him, sista. He ain't worth your last brain cell.
post #41 of 54
Is "Music 4321" a female?
post #42 of 54
Thread Starter 
Ok, again this thread is not about the merits of the se530. Can we please get back to the issue at hand, which is the potential loss of coherence in multiple driver iems compared to single driver iems, and if the triple fi suffers from this issue. I'd like to have more opinions on this, as I don't have a good understanding of the technical issues involved.
And, please don't make inane or incendiary posts because this prevents any real discussion from occurring.
post #43 of 54
You should know, dude. ;-)
post #44 of 54
The trips i owned had crisp highs, deep lows, and slightly lacking midrange. purchased a year ago
post #45 of 54
Any tips of Rockbox EQ to correct TF10 midrange?

Quote:
which is the potential loss of coherence in multiple driver iems compared to single driver iems,
Talking gibberish a quality multi-way speaker isn't a inherently bad design.
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