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triple fi: coherent sound?

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
I had an se530 before I got er-4. My biggest problem besides the rolled off highs was the lack of soundstage coherence. Basically, it sounded like treble was coming from one tweeter and bass was coming from a totally different driver, which it is. My er-4s, on the other hand, has a very coherent soundstage. Is coherence in soundstage a problem with the triple fi as well?
post #2 of 54
I wouldn't say so. I've had a pair of triple.fi's for something like a year and a half, everything I hear through them has always sounded decently spaced and where it "should" be to me.
post #3 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antony6555 View Post
I had an se530 before I got er-4. My biggest problem besides the rolled off highs was the lack of soundstage coherence. Basically, it sounded like treble was coming from one tweeter and bass was coming from a totally different source. My er-4s, on the other hand, sounds has a very coherent soundstage. Is coherence in soundstage a problem with the triple fi as well?
I would say the Triple Fi 10 Pro soundstage destroys the single driver ER4 soundstage in every regard. The ER4 has the smallest soundstage of any IEM I have ever heard. It's more of a headstage.
post #4 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
I would say the Triple Fi 10 Pro soundstage destroys the single driver ER4 soundstage in every regard. The ER4 has the smallest soundstage of any IEM I have ever heard. It's more of a headstage.
Correct. The staging of the ER4 is razor-thin in every direction. It represents a paradigm level of imaging without a sufficient sense of space. I didn't think the 10 pro beat the ER4 in imaging, but felt the added space was very helpful.
post #5 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
I would say the Triple Fi 10 Pro soundstage destroys the single driver ER4 soundstage in every regard. The ER4 has the smallest soundstage of any IEM I have ever heard. It's more of a headstage.
x2. TF10 easily wins the s/s battle between these two - hardly a battle really, a quick skirmish is all it takes....
post #6 of 54
The triple.fi has the best sonic imaging of any earphones I have heard. Instruments and voices seem to occupy distinct positions in the wide soundstage. They can be spooky.
Sandy.
post #7 of 54
IMO as good as the IE8.
post #8 of 54
I had a pair of Triple Fi 10 Pros I liked very much. I liked them better than the SE530, but not because of "rolled-off highs." I'm not sure what it was about the SE530 that I liked less, but I think I preferred more recessed mids. A typical hi-fi arrangement is to boost the extremes, creating an EQ smile. The SE530 has a very flat response, with minimal bass boost. It does roll off at the high end, but so do most monitors. That's not a defect; it's intentional. When you jam earpieces into your ear canals, a little HF goes a long, long way. That's why the drivers are damped.

The SE530 is not designed to have bass come out of one earpiece, though the lack of crossfeed in any kind of heaphone may emphasize imbalances in a recording, which is why high-end amps have crossfeed circuits you can use to restore a certain neutrality to the experience. The SE530 broken down looks like a nerd sitting on two pezes. http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-...1se530blow.jpg

Your 530 may have been defective. The drivers may have been mismatched. There may have been an issue with the circuitry or the filter in one of the earpieces. The real difference between the 530 and the Triple Fi is the 530's emphasis on mids, a difference in sound signature based on different driver configurations. The Triple Fi has two drivers (one of which is a dual, allowing it call itself a "triple driver" earphone). The Triple Fi's tweeter is more of a dedicated tweeter, probably something close to KA's FK 26260. With a dual doing double duty as mid and woofer, the Triple Fi backs off the midrange a little. What you hear most of is the bass and sparkling treble. With the SE530, you're actually getting three discrete drivers, not two drivers with one doing double-duty as a dual. The larger mid/bass drivers look identical. Unless they're filtered differently, this should give the 530 plenty of bass but also plenty of midrange. In fact, its specs show it to have more bass than mids. It's just that both outperform the treble, particularly after about 2kHz. But when you compare its performance to that of many other drivers, that roll-off is hardly unusual. Build A Graph - HeadRoom: Stereo Headphones, Amps & DACs, Wireless, Noise Canceling, Ear Canal, Earbud, Audio Cables & Accessories
post #9 of 54
Actually there two different TF10Pro, the very first one came out was early 500 batch for only offered it to who order it first before it's official release and it's sound signature was like pronounced highs but clear n sweet with great midrange(all the details was there as on Shure E500) and feels little behind the highs with great deep bass response. Then after official release UE changed the cable and now TF10pro(to me) is more refind version of SF5Pro with large soundstage, forward midrange as SE530 but open with heavy punchy bass. It's also happen with Shure E500 after launch Shure added more bass response with new name SE530. To me earlier TF10Pro was amazing to show details in highs and mids, specialy where the instrument start till finish and overall had more details with less widen soundstage as now on current TF10Pro.
post #10 of 54
I don't have any to compare with my triple's, but I'm surprised about the 'Rolled off highs' comment.
post #11 of 54
@ ZARIM: Triple Fi now has 'Forward midrange as SE530'? Not to these ears...& neither of my Trips are from the initial ltd edition afaik...
post #12 of 54
For the record I had one of the original versions from a few years back with the slippery cable with the L-plug. I have another pair with the new cable and straight plug. I think they sound identical. As far as I know UE never layed any claim that the different versions sounded any different.
post #13 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post
I had a pair of Triple Fi 10 Pros I liked very much. I liked them better than the SE530, but not because of "rolled-off highs." I'm not sure what it was about the SE530 that I liked less, but I think I preferred more recessed mids. A typical hi-fi arrangement is to boost the extremes, creating an EQ smile. The SE530 has a very flat response, with minimal bass boost. It does roll off at the high end, but so do most monitors. That's not a defect; it's intentional. When you jam earpieces into your ear canals, a little HF goes a long, long way. That's why the drivers are damped.

The SE530 is not designed to have bass come out of one earpiece, though the lack of crossfeed in any kind of heaphone may emphasize imbalances in a recording, which is why high-end amps have crossfeed circuits you can use to restore a certain neutrality to the experience. The SE530 broken down looks like a nerd sitting on two pezes. http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-...1se530blow.jpg

Your 530 may have been defective. The drivers may have been mismatched. There may have been an issue with the circuitry or the filter in one of the earpieces. The real difference between the 530 and the Triple Fi is the 530's emphasis on mids, a difference in sound signature based on different driver configurations. The Triple Fi has two drivers (one of which is a dual, allowing it call itself a "triple driver" earphone). The Triple Fi's tweeter is more of a dedicated tweeter, probably something close to KA's FK 26260. With a dual doing double duty as mid and woofer, the Triple Fi backs off the midrange a little. What you hear most of is the bass and sparkling treble. With the SE530, you're actually getting three discrete drivers, not two drivers with one doing double-duty as a dual. The larger mid/bass drivers look identical. Unless they're filtered differently, this should give the 530 plenty of bass but also plenty of midrange. In fact, its specs show it to have more bass than mids. It's just that both outperform the treble, particularly after about 2kHz. But when you compare its performance to that of many other drivers, that roll-off is hardly unusual. Build A Graph - HeadRoom: Stereo Headphones, Amps & DACs, Wireless, Noise Canceling, Ear Canal, Earbud, Audio Cables & Accessories
No there was nothing wrong with them. In fact, I sent them in and got a new pair because I thought that there was something wrong with them, but the new pair sounded the same.

I didn't explain my soundstaging problem very precisely, I have edited my original post for clarity. What I should have said was that I could tell that the bass was coming from a different driver than the treble and that this produced a distorted soundstage. Speakers with multiple drivers are often said to lack coherence as well. I suspect any issues like this that I have with the triple fi will be less extreme because they are more balanced, but I'm still concerned. If anyone who had similar issues with the se530 has heard the triple fi, I'd like to hear their opinion on this.

Anyway, to me arguing that the se530 does not have rolled off highs is like arguing that the er-4s' base impact is adequate, haha. They are both flawed phones. However, I am more willing to live with the flaws of the er-4s because of my musical preferences (I mainly listen to classical.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by captian73 View Post
I don't have any to compare with my triple's, but I'm surprised about the 'Rolled off highs' comment.
I thought that this was a common sentiment among head-fiers, even those who liked the se530.
post #14 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antony6555 View Post
What I should have said was that I could tell that the bass was coming from a different driver than the treble and that this produced a distorted soundstage.
That's really weird. Sometimes, on old recordings which were engineered for hi-fi's where the speakers were practically next to each other, you'll have one set of instruments dominate the left speaker while another set dominate the right - with the effect that imaging is extremely dynamic (e.g. The Who's Pinball Wizard). But if you're regularly hearing bass out of one earpiece and treble out of the other, that's nowhere near acceptable. I had no similar experience with my Triple Fi's - and I'm glad. I think I would have gone out of my mind.

It's possible that the wiring was wrong and you had phase issues, but who knows?

Quote:
Speakers with multiple drivers are often said to lack coherence as well.
On what planet? If the speakers are wired up properly, there shouldn't be a problem in phase coherence. If you have a driver sucking when the other is blowing, or you have drivers that aren't vertically aligned, well, that's a screw-up with consequence. It's not a fault of multi-driver designs. Single-driver designs are almost always those plastic boomboxes you see at Walmart, the ones with the fake woofers and the non-existent tweeters. I'll take my chances with my four-way at home. The wiring really isn't that complicated.

Quote:
Anyway, to me arguing that the se530 does not have rolled off highs is like arguing that the er-4s' base impact is adequate, haha.
Hahaha, you're killing me. Stop. Oh, wow, I think I just peed my pants. Yeah, good times.

But seriously, laugh all you want after you've looked at a frequency response graph. I gave you a link. Did you check it, or were you too busy laughing to click. I'll tell you what. Here it is. Look at it carefully and then tell me about the SE530's horrible HF roll-off. To my eyes, there's plenty of roll-off to go around. Why pick on the SE530?

Build A Graph - HeadRoom: Stereo Headphones, Amps & DACs, Wireless, Noise Canceling, Ear Canal, Earbud, Audio Cables & Accessories

While we're laughing our sixteen-year-old pants off, lets stop and read an excerpt from "How to Interpret Headphone Data" at Headroom.com. I just love this little excerpt and I'm sure you will as well:
Quote:
A "natural sounding" headphone should be slightly higher in the bass in the bass (about 3 or 4 dB) between 40Hz and 500Hz. This compensates for the fact that headphones don't give you the physical punch or 'impact' that the sound waves from a room speaker have; so a slight compensation for increased bass response is needed for natural sound.

Headphones also need to be rolled-off in the highs to compensate for the drivers being so close to the ear; a gently sloping flat line from 1kHz to about 8-10dB down at 20kHz is about right. You'll notice all headphone measurements have a lot of jagged ups & downs (peaks & valleys) in the high frequencies; this is normal and mostly due to reflection cancellations in the folds and ridges in the outer part of the ear. Ideally however, the ups and downs of the frequency response should be fairly small and average out to a flat line. Large peaks or valleys over 3kHz in width usually indicate poor headphone response, and should be viewed as a coloring of the sound. Some small dips in the highs may actually be desirable and should exist in the 2kHz to 8kHz region.
Eh, but what do they know at Headroom? Maybe we should do a Chicken Little Dance while we throw the SE530 down a mineshaft.

Quote:
I thought that this was a common sentiment among head-fiers, even those who liked the se530.
Well, you'll have to forgive me. I go with what I hear, not with what I read. You might want to do the same.

Oh, wait a minute. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
post #15 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post
That's really weird. Sometimes, on old recordings which were engineered for hi-fi's where the speakers were practically next to each other, you'll have one set of instruments dominate the left speaker while another set dominate the right - with the effect that imaging is extremely dynamic (e.g. The Who's Pinball Wizard). But if you're regularly hearing bass out of one earpiece and treble out of the other, that's nowhere near acceptable. I had no similar experience with my Triple Fi's - and I'm glad. I think I would have gone out of my mind.

It's possible that the wiring was wrong and you had phase issues, but who knows?

On what planet? If the speakers are wired up properly, there shouldn't be a problem in phase coherence. If you have a driver sucking when the other is blowing, or you have drivers that aren't vertically aligned, well, that's a screw-up with consequence. It's not a fault of multi-driver designs. Single-driver designs are almost always those plastic boomboxes you see at Walmart, the ones with the fake woofers and the non-existent tweeters. I'll take my chances with my four-way at home. The wiring really isn't that complicated.

Hahaha, you're killing me. Stop. Oh, wow, I think I just peed my pants. Yeah, good times.

But seriously, laugh all you want after you've looked at a frequency response graph. I gave you a link. Did you check it, or were you too busy laughing to click. I'll tell you what. Here it is. Look at it carefully and then tell me about the SE530's horrible HF roll-off. To my eyes, there's plenty of roll-off to go around. Why pick on the SE530?

Build A Graph - HeadRoom: Stereo Headphones, Amps & DACs, Wireless, Noise Canceling, Ear Canal, Earbud, Audio Cables & Accessories

While we're laughing our sixteen-year-old pants off, lets stop and read an excerpt from "How to Interpret Headphone Data" at Headroom.com. I just love this little excerpt and I'm sure you will as well: Eh, but what do they know at Headroom? Maybe we should do a Chicken Little Dance while we throw the SE530 down a mineshaft.

Well, you'll have to forgive me. I go with what I hear, not with what I read. You might want to do the same.

Oh, wait a minute. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!
I think you still don't really understand my problem with the se530. It's not that I only hear bass out of one earphone and not the other. Rather, it's that it sounds like the treble comes from the top of the soundstage and the bass comes from the bottom of the soundstage and then there's a sort-of void in between. Which makes it sound like they're coming from two separate sources, and why it doesn't sound coherent.

In any case, I don't want to turn this thread into a debate on the merits of the se530.
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