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The Inherent Value of Burn-In - Page 25

post #361 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi View Post
Have you established audibility in any objective sense? Or have you only established audibility in the same sense that others have established the audibility of placing photographs of themselves in their freezers, or established the audibility of Machina Dynamica's teleportation tweak?



If you have only observed differences in a purely subjective sense, then you haven't established audibility in any objective sense and your observations get us no further down the road than the observations of those with photographs in their freezers.



I have read what you've written. And nowhere do I recall your having demonstrated actual audibility in any sort of objective sense.

k
This looks right to me K.I.S. I lend you my moral support, FWIW. Thanks for at least putting up the good fight, for reasons unknown.

This debate is over 30 years old and I don't have the stomach for it anymore, but it makes for interesting reading as fresh minds attack it. There is much to be learned in understanding it, and much to be learned of those who participate in it.
post #362 of 372
Thread Starter 
Glad to hear the the thread and thus the burn-in debate lives on. Good reading, everyone!
post #363 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by sampson_smith View Post
Glad to hear the the thread and thus the burn-in debate lives on. Good reading, everyone!
Just found your OP and I must say that last paragraph is an exploration in linguistic headphone nirvana of the likes I have never read before. 2xThumbs
post #364 of 372
Thread Starter 
Thank you very much Wingsabr! I appreciate it, a lot!
post #365 of 372
Just found this thread. Interesting perspective and I agree on your criticism of the new shoe analogy. Some people have very old headphones which are still strong so one can assume that at reasonable listening levels, headphones don't fatigue to the point of failure. Then what exactly is burn in? I'm not sure.

The only thing that would change my mind is reputable retailers recommending everyone to burn in their headphones or if they even offered such a service. I've found some mentioning burn in and adjustment as a reason to not immediately return a headphone, however they never exactly explain what burn in is or how you should go about it. I mean, if I owned a store that sold headphones, I'd plug a phone into a system, leave it on for 200 hours and sell it for $50 more and I'm reasonably sure people would buy it because time is money. But no one does, probably due to warranty disputes.

So here I am, not sure of burn in. My headphones sound as good as they ever did. Going from the k701 which is light on the bass to the 840 makes me feel nauseous at first but then I understand the sound after a minute or so. Kind of like driving someone else's car - you need some times to get use to the gearbox and clutch, as well as the handling. Could burn in be that as well as some physical changes to the drivers? Not sure.

Burn in has affected my life twofold. Firstly, it made me play my PX200 for hours when I got them way back in 2005. Each time I picked them up I was amazed with the apparent improvement. This time around, I did no burn in and to be completely honest, I can't hear a difference as I play more music. I estimate I've racked up 20-30 hours on both headphones so it's arguable that I've not finished burn in and this is fairly easy to suggest with the k701. Could it be that the reason why I my experiences differ is due to my initial belief or disbelief in burn in? That would infer that it was purely psychological. I can't really say. Secondly, it's given me a chance to discuss the issue at various places, online and in real life. All of my friends believe in burn in and a fair few are much smarter than me in all areas. I often cast doubts over my perspective due to them believing the contrary but then again, that's justification of why burn in should be believed at this site. Just because some senior members believe in it doesn't mean I should take it as gospel.

YMMV should always be said and it's ok if it does vary from others. Whether burn in is physical or psychological is irrelevant. If you think/believe that headphones sound better over time, listen to music and enjoy the change. If you don't, listen to the music and enjoy the constantly great sound. You can't really lose can you?
post #366 of 372
Thread Starter 
Well put, MomijiTMO. Thanks for your input! I would only disagree with the "paying retailers to burn-in your headphones for you" comment, as I (in a psychologically inextricable way) intensely enjoy listening to my headphones over the course of "burn-in", or whatever we'll choose to call it now that it's clear that we can't all agree on the phenomenon. The impression that they are being broken-in and bettered with time is irresistible and often savored when in the right state of mind. Mmmm... toasty burn-in!
post #367 of 372
I'm skeptically supportive of the idea of headphone break-in, but most major manufacturers seem to accept the notion.

There's another kind of "break-in" that I know exists, but is rarely mentioned: "volume" adjustments.

At lower volumes, even a good pair of headphones may sound wan and underpowered. Properly amped and powered, however, the sound approaches an ideal level; the bass and treble become richer, and the sound approaches its ideal level.

Part of the pleasure of using headphones lies in discovering that area where they sound their very best.
post #368 of 372
As with most opinions, it's based on experience. I was skeptic about burn-in and the significance of the role it plays in changing how a pair of cans would sound. However, my new Ultrasone Edition 8's has me warming to the concept. I'd be damned if the depth and extension of the base hasn't been markedly improved by leaving it to burn in for 24 hours!! I was initially disappointed when I got them since I wanted HD800-like clarity with good base. After the burn-in, only the D5000's will deliver the sort of depth that I hear now. I wouldn't call myself a basehead since I dislike too much base as much as I dislike too little of it. However, the base response does mean a lot to my listening enjoyment and the Edition 8's are now delivering in spades.
post #369 of 372
@aimlink: base response? basehead? good base?

base != bass
post #370 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post
@aimlink: base response? basehead? good base?

base != bass
Yes. You're correct. Brain fart... ever had one of those?
post #371 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by aimlink View Post
Yes. You're correct. Brain fart... ever had one of those?
Brain farts remind us all that we're human and not music listening robots with perfect ears.

post #372 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aynjell View Post
Brain farts remind us all that we're human and not music listening robots with perfect ears.

Chairs ....

erm... I meant ... Cheers.
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