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SQ difference from wire gauge??? - Page 2

post #16 of 52
Thread Starter 
hmm so asking about stranded vs solid is the same as asking about wire gauge...interesting.

also, what does it matter if I'm asking more than once. just leave the thread then.. no need for you to comment on that.
and it's not like one person always has the right answers, just looking for opinion(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxworks View Post
you already had your answer yet you asked again and again.

that's why I got annoyed. how many answers do you need telling you its not about 'sound quality' ?
post #17 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by bik2101 View Post
alright cool.. will try to do that then. just don't want to end up buying all these different parts that I might not end up using, but I guess a lot of it comes down to personal tastes.
Definitely, and at the very least you will practice your soldering and building skills. I am relatively new to recabling headphones too, have been doing it for less than a year. I found this site because I wanted to recable my coveted AKG 240DFs (which have the best mid/high frequency range of the cans I've got) but instead have done my HD650s and DT770s; I see it as "practice" for when I do get around to doing my 240's. I'm actually considering modifying the ear cups on the 240s to add 2.1mm plugs, just to be able to unplug/plug cables, still researching this a bit though.

Hopefully you'll find that it's all about personal choices/opinions; some people try to make you see their side of things as it is "the" way, but that's just as silly as someone trying to convince you that one particular pizza topping is better than all others. Best of luck!
post #18 of 52
As people have mentioned you want something flexible and something with a jacket that won't liquefy when you touch it with a soldering iron.
So I guess:

Decide if you're a cable believer or not, then, chose a wire (based on you're position) with the above two properties, and then, if you are unsure ask here for what gauge of your chosen wire people would recommend for the specific use (portable, system ic, ect).

I currently have a love infatuation with this stuff
Redco Audio
because it is small, has the above two properties, fits all the nylon braids I have here, has 4 wires and is shielded, comes in red (lol), and has a name with Japanese syllables.

I used it (and it's bigger bro) for ICs and a ipod lod. I am going to use the small one (I think) for recableing my headphones because I like the idea of a thinner, less weighty cable.
post #19 of 52
Dang'namitt... double post
post #20 of 52
Thread Starter 
yeah, I have used the mogami. it's nice and flexible. haven't yet tried the bigger one (25xx). thinking about getting some wire and braiding

Quote:
Originally Posted by nattonrice View Post
As people have mentioned you want something flexible and something with a jacket that won't liquefy when you touch it with a soldering iron.
So I guess:

Decide if you're a cable believer or not, then, chose a wire (based on you're position) with the above two properties, and then, if you are unsure ask here for what gauge of your chosen wire people would recommend for the specific use (portable, system ic, ect).

I currently have a love infatuation with this stuff
Redco Audio
because it is small, has the above two properties, fits all the nylon braids I have here, has 4 wires and is shielded, comes in red (lol), and has a name with Japanese syllables.

I used it (and it's bigger bro) for ICs and a ipod lod. I am going to use the small one (I think) for recableing my headphones because I like the idea of a thinner, less weighty cable.
post #21 of 52
Consider whether your budget allows you to divorce scientific fact from infatuation and make a decision. Facts: cables don't differ that much in electrical properties, certainly not enough to make a hearable (>1db) difference in sq. As for the "sound", only experimentation will allow you to decide what you find aesthetically pleasing.
post #22 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by anetode View Post
Consider whether your budget allows you to divorce scientific fact from infatuation and make a decision. Facts: cables don't differ that much in electrical properties, certainly not enough to make a hearable (>1db) difference in sq. As for the "sound", only experimentation will allow you to decide what you find aesthetically pleasing.
Sorry, that's not "fact", that's a conclusion drawn from a number of test (usually nowhere near the conditions a cable is used under - fluctuating AC voltage for music, presenting a certain capacitive load to a DAC, in relative proximity to other cables and/or power wiring, etc).

I do agree with the half of your last part though - only experimentation will allow you to determine what you "prefer", the esthetically (visually) pleasing part is up to you, sleeve the cable all you want.
post #23 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
Sorry, that's not "fact", that's a conclusion drawn from a number of test (usually nowhere near the conditions a cable is used under - fluctuating AC voltage for music, presenting a certain capacitive load to a DAC, in relative proximity to other cables and/or power wiring, etc).

I do agree with the half of your last part though - only experimentation will allow you to determine what you "prefer", the esthetically (visually) pleasing part is up to you, sleeve the cable all you want.
Great thing about scientific facts - you don't have to accept them for them to be true, the scientific method determines that

As for aesthetics, I want to clarify that I meant these include any and all preferences determined by perception. But then again you already knew that and were pulling my leg, so ok
post #24 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by anetode View Post
Great thing about scientific facts - you don't have to accept them for them to be true, the scientific method determines that
I'm sure the scientific methods used to test "differences" in wire have determined that on some measurements, they are very similar and if people listened to 1V sine square waves through measurement equipment, we wouldn't know the difference. We do listen to music through different DACs and amplifiers though and the conditions for measuring how cables act in those conditions and solely in relation to how a cable difference can impact the signal carrying the music. I believe that is simply a different test, using different criteria for measuring differences between cables, not simply cable resistance, inductance or capacitance (though I'm sure these will also play a role, depending on condition).

A thing about "scientific facts" - take 100kg of gold and compare the weight against a 100kg weight of silver. The result is that gold must obviously be the same as silver. Of course there are other things responsible for this not being true, but as this test only measures one thing and a conclusion is drawn from that, it must be "fact".
post #25 of 52
Sensitive electronics are certainly a factor, no one test can adequately account for all variables. Nonetheless, there is a preponderance of evidence leading towards one conclusion. You can't simply dismiss this evidence because of a straw man argument that musical performance of cables can't be tested - it can and it has.

Again, we are all free to make up our minds however we wish, just so long as there is a mutual respect for opinion that doesn't dismiss the scientific method as woefully inadequate or an article of faith. Doing so would be unfair to the body of science responsible for giving us all these great headphones to begin with
post #26 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by anetode View Post
Sensitive electronics are certainly a factor, no one test can adequately account for all variables. Nonetheless, there is a preponderance of evidence leading towards one conclusion. You can't simply dismiss this evidence because of a straw man argument that musical performance of cables can't be tested - it can and it has.

Again, we are all free to make up our minds however we wish, just so long as there is a mutual respect for opinion that doesn't dismiss the scientific method as woefully inadequate or an article of faith. Doing so would be unfair to the body of science responsible for giving us all these great headphones to begin with
I wasn't gonna say anything... you can ask Ben himself (the OP of this thread regarding my comments on cables and diy matters that I kept in PM's so as not to offend certain people) BUT you have unfortunately rubbed me the wrong way with your previous post so here is my rant. As in previous rants, please be warned what is contained below contains arguments that may be long (long winded as well) but have a tinge of truth that may (probably will) make you throw up, stop drinking, or just call me an idiot. But usually I'm not wrong (not right either but who knows).

1. There is no strawman argument from people who hear differences in cables towards scientific based people. In fact if you scour through my posts regarding litz braiding, different cable types, the solder used etc.. you will see that a majority of my posts regarding cables are based on scientific matters. But then again I don't belong to either camp, I'm more of a middle path guy.

2. The strawman argument actually COMES from the science freaks (sorry I gotta give you guys a bad name too). You guys are the ones saying that the cable makers/cable believers have no scientific evidence... CLEARLY that's wrong -and THAT is in fact a strawman argument. So instead of actually debating/attacking/countering these guys you create a mystical head-fier who beleives in the magic of cables without scientific proof...

3. Mutual respect? WTH? Really, you interjecting science as the be all and end all, while disregarding my experiences and perceptions of reality -You call that mutual respect? Really?Wow.

4. The scientific method is a piece of crap and if you did scientific research you'd know it. First of, if the scientific method works, that science is really just the process of gathering data, hypothesizing, experimentation, theorizing rinse wash repeat.. then you are admitting science is just a linear process. Now whats wrong with that you ask?
a. First off, that means no geniuses
b. Second, all you need to solve a problem is to throw enough bodies at a problem until its solved.

Now based on einstein, newton, watson and crick (sp) etc... we know a is not true. There are geniuses in the world. The reason there would be no geniuses in science are because the greatest inventions/innovations and changes in science have occurred in spurts. There are decades where nothing happens in science until a genius comes along to push science forward. Think Faraday with electricity, then Maxwell, and eventually einstein. If science was truly linear, then you would also realize that all the problems in the world, are simply lacking scientists and all we need to do is keep putting more and more scientists at finding a cure for cancer, for aids, for the swine flu -whatever. If scientists really followed the scientific method... then quite frankly the greatest geniuses in the world are all then failures of the scientific method. Hawking would be an obvious dumb --- so would maxwell and Poincare.

So there goes your nice and good working scientific method. Now to bring the argument to a close. The scientific method is at best a starting point, but realize that solutions to problems do not come from this linear progression, the come from the minds of true genius or from accidents. Answers come to mind as you synthesize information (actually I'm not sure) but from my experience and Poincare's words, its like your mind takes in all of these random facts and pieces of information and then it comes up with the answer -from nowhere. There is no linear progression to the answer, and if there was, you would technically have known the answer already and all you were doing is doing the steps to get to it. Think of deriving a formula. If you already know the end result, you can derive it from scratch. But if you're the one deriving say a new proof or equation, then all of that info would come from information that your mind puts together ie. ideas.

---end rant--- for now
post #27 of 52
Sorry, but once you got to "science is a linear process" you began to remind me of the timecube guy. Please try to understand that the whole point of science is to attempt to eliminate any intrusion of human biases and points of view. The scientific method is a sort of guide to the abstraction of meaning from reality, though at this point we are stumbling into epistemology. Despite the popular concept of "scientism", scientific study is not a personal cognitive bias.

If you would be so kind as to PM me your address, I will forward the following book, which should prove interesting to you

Amazon.com: Inevitable Illusions: How Mistakes of Reason Rule Our Minds (9780471159629): Massimo Piattelli-Palmarini: Books

Following that,

Amazon.com: An Introduction To Logic And Scientific Method (9781443722667): Morris F. Cohen: Books

Please note that neither book has anything to do with audio cables.
post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdupiano View Post
cable makers/cable believers have no scientific evidence... CLEARLY that's wrong
I'm not quite clear on how this is clearly wrong?
^ That was an honest question o(^-^)o


Quote:
4. The scientific method is a piece of crap and if you did scientific research you'd know it. First of, if the scientific method works, that science is really just the process of gathering data, hypothesizing, experimentation, theorizing rinse wash repeat.. then you are admitting science is just a linear process. Now whats wrong with that you ask?
a. First off, that means no geniuses
b. Second, all you need to solve a problem is to throw enough bodies at a problem until its solved.
Um ok... I do, do scientific research and this process:

"science is really just the process of gathering data, hypothesizing, experimentation, theorizing"

is more or less how science progresses.
The physical universe (or universe of study) is observed.
Someone theorizes a mathematical model that fits said observation.

Now for part (a). If by genius you mean someone like Einstein or Maxwell (your suggestions) coming up with a model or idea explaining what was, at that time, unexplainable in a satisfactory way then no, you are incorrect. This is just a combo of steps 2 and 4 you listed.

As for part (b). This is more or less what happens in a very general sense. Eventual one of these "bodies" has a conceptual break through.
post #29 of 52
I built a straw-man example knowing full-well that it is that for the simple purpose of proving that dealing with certain criteria (purposefully chosen to abide with the conclusion) while measuring an experiment will always result in results that suit to display an experiment to conclude a predetermined conclusion.

I do not know all factors that should be measured nor do I know how to measure them all, but I do believe that different cables make me hear different things. I honestly cannot explain why this happens or what characteristic of a certain cable makes me think it sounds a certain way, but I do believe that I hear a difference between cables. Some, the "this exact 'scientific method' must prove all" crowd argue that it is placebo, others, the "nobody knows what affects 'sound'" argue in another direction. I simply believe my ears.

In the end, I simply recommend people to build their own, experiment with everything, play around, do whatever makes you happy and come up with your own conclusion. Why are you listening to others when you have your own mind made up anyway. If that mind is set, you'll argue and ignore, if not, you'll try for yourself. Get the f* on with it.
post #30 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenAngel View Post
I built a straw-man example knowing full-well that it is that for the simple purpose of proving that dealing with certain criteria (purposefully chosen to abide with the conclusion) while measuring an experiment will always result in results that suit to display an experiment to conclude a predetermined conclusion.
Fortunately we have peer reviewed publications to weed out a decent amount of this.

Unfortunately in some areas of science a large quantity of it still seeps through the cracks hehe~

To the OP: Did you end up deciding on something?
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