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How many of you actullay believe IE8 burn in effect? - Page 12

post #166 of 208
7/24/09 at 4:21pm
Theories vs. theories leaves no sides happy : [.
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post #167 of 208
7/24/09 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaoDi View Post
Can we not just conclude that some heres the difference and some don't, and some may think it's just yourself instead of the Earphone and while some thinks it's the earphone and not your head.
That's reasonable, more or less.

Quote:
I myself believe that it's the earphones, as some dynamic driver IEM's sound better and better after time.
To me that's evidence against "burn in" since I see no physical reason to expect that burn in would improve the sound, and clear reasons to suppose that it would instead deteriorate it.

Quote:
If you said you might have just gotten used to them, sure i'll agree to part of that but i don't think that "getting used to them" is a reason after thousands of hours. Honestly, does one really take hundreds of days to get used to an earphone?
It doesn't take me that long, but I have on the other hand become aware of certain facets of some loudspeaker's preformance after many days or months.

Since I still hear new facets in musical pieces and performances even after many years of listening to them, I would assume the same may be true of transducers. A given CD performance of a given song is surely not going to change and yet, on some days listening for maybe the 1000th time on the exact same equipment (all of which has long passed even the most extensive claims of burn in time) I become aware of some subtlety that passed me by before. After that I can often hear it all the time, even on other equipment.
Is there a CD burn in effect?
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post #168 of 208
7/24/09 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post

To me that's evidence against "burn in" since I see no physical reason to expect that burn in would improve the sound, and clear reasons to suppose that it would instead deteriorate it.
Well the way you're thinking it is the dynamic driver wears out over time and should burn-out and the SQ deteriorates instead of gets better. But the point is that that's not necessarily true, it's just like a keyboard, and brand new keyboard is stiff and hard to type with. The more you use the keyboard, the easier the keys are to press, doesn't necessarily mean the keys stop working because the mechanism loosened.
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post #169 of 208
7/24/09 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaoDi View Post
Well the way you're thinking it is the dynamic driver wears out over time and should burn-out and the SQ deteriorates instead of gets better. But the point is that that's not necessarily true, it's just like a keyboard, and brand new keyboard is stiff and hard to type with.
Not that I've noticed. If it is, then it isn't well enough engineered, in my opinion. There's no need for it to happen with a good design.

Quote:
The more you use the keyboard, the easier the keys are to press, doesn't necessarily mean the keys stop working because the mechanism loosened.
If the springs get slack enough then they won't spring back up and you won't be able to use that keyboard anymore.

More importantly, dynamic drivers have to be closely specified, and it is the engineer's business to make sure drivers leaving the factory meet the specification and stay within it. If the driver changes to the point that it doesn't meet the specification then it is defective. IF the driver needs to be "burned in" to meet the spec then it is the business of the manufacturer to do that burn in. If the driver does not meet spec when it is delivered it is a defective driver.

Modern materials and glues are quite good enough so that a dynamic driver may meet it's spec upon leaving the factory and stay that way for many years. If they weren't then well engineered transducers wouldn't be possible.
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post #170 of 208
7/24/09 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloxt View Post
Theories vs. theories leaves no sides happy : [.
But there are actual measurements that support one against the other. You can believe the tests and the measurements or you can believe uncontrolled listening impressions. I know what my choice is, but everyone else is perfectly free to make theirs.
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post #171 of 208
7/24/09 at 7:50pm
very interesting conversation. I guess I'm more of a scientific mind and prefer controls and measuring devices over my own senses when it comes to this sort of stuff because 1) I'm new to this 2) it takes too long for me to switch headphones back and forth

maybe there's a personal testing methodology that I'm not aware of?

I may appreciate this topic more later down the road so I won't make any conclusions yet. What I do know, however, is that my tolerance to in-ear equipment has changed dramatically over the past several months in that I prefer a nice, tight seal.

Right now, I'm researching how I can preserve my hair cells! lol. I still have to purchase that noise - level reader
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post #172 of 208
7/24/09 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
Not that I've noticed. If it is, then it isn't well enough engineered, in my opinion. There's no need for it to happen with a good design.
Just because that happens doesn't mean it's not a good design...
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post #173 of 208
7/24/09 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaoDi View Post
Well the way you're thinking it is the dynamic driver wears out over time and should burn-out and the SQ deteriorates instead of gets better. But the point is that that's not necessarily true, it's just like a keyboard, and brand new keyboard is stiff and hard to type with. The more you use the keyboard, the easier the keys are to press, doesn't necessarily mean the keys stop working because the mechanism loosened.
How many cycles does a keyboard key have to undergo before it is broken in? Not hours of ownership, or even hours of playing time - cycles of that specific key.
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post #174 of 208
7/24/09 at 8:41pm
Another unsolicited thought: Maybe coming to appreciate the virtues of an earphone is like learning to like an unfamiliar food or flavor? We have to develop a taste for many and perhaps most foods. Perhaps the sound signature of earphones is likewise an acquired taste?

As evidence, I notice that, amongst my collection, whenever I switch earphones there is an adjustment period of some ~3-4 songs before I really start enjoying them. This happens over and over again for the same earphones. You might like both IPA and Witbeer, for instance, yet switching between them is somewhat disorienting. The initial appreciation of a phone, would be like learning to like a new style of beer, some exotic belgian flavor, for instance.

The more I think about this argument the less I'm interested in settling the real vs. imagined debate and the more I'm interested in exploring potential psychological reasons for why we come to better appreciate the sound of what we are listening to over time.

The reverse is also possible as we sometimes stop liking the sound signature of certain phones and move on to something else. It's like we've got bored with the same-old and have to try something new. Its not that the phone sounds objectively any different, but it sounds different to us. Its lost its appeal.
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post #175 of 208
7/24/09 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thwood3 View Post
Another unsolicited thought: Maybe coming to appreciate the virtues of an earphone is like learning to like an unfamiliar food or flavor? We have to develop a taste for many and perhaps most foods. Perhaps the sound signature of earphones is likewise an acquired taste?
I agree.
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post #176 of 208
7/24/09 at 9:56pm
sometimes airplane food tastes good... if you're hungry enough.
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post #177 of 208
7/25/09 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by talisman42 View Post
sometimes airplane food tastes good... if you're hungry enough.
SALT PEANUTS, SALT PEANUTS!
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post #178 of 208
7/25/09 at 4:52pm
I like Southwest, they have cheese crackers and Lorna Doone cookies!
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post #179 of 208
8/10/09 at 11:18pm
My initial thought, burn-in is the mentality thing. People are just too serious about their equipment and not enjoy the product for what it made for.

I have UM2, HD595, HD650, I never noticed any different between out of the box or after 2-3 years (never actually count how many hours)

Only IE8 that i actually hear the different after a while. How many hour? I don't know, I didn't count it either. The only thing I can tell is that the sound is much more smoother than when it out of the box as I still remember I did and A/B test compare to my UM2.

For me, most of cans i bought, i never get to listen to it before. By reading the review and imagine is this kind of sound I like? Once i bought it, i enjoy with it no matter what it sound like (as it is not easy for me to resell either)
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post #180 of 208
11/15/09 at 10:52am

evidence

Some searching on google came up with this: Actual measured t/s data of pre and post break-in of the Audax AP100Z0 loudspeaker drivers. Shown over 0, 30, 50 and 70 hours.

This is the only evidence I could find, either way. A lot of people on various forums claim there are double-blind studies showing no difference between new vs broken-in, however none of them referenced these studies and I was not able to find them.

In regards to my own experience a few months ago my girlfriend bought a new pair of grado sr225's. I've had the sr80's for a few years. The sr80's sounded WAY better than the new sr225's. This was not only my opinion but her's as well. Now however we both agree that the 225's sound better. True, this last point is only anecdotal evidence.

For those who don't believe in break-in: could YOU please provide some evidence. If thousands of people say they can hear a difference it would make much more sense to assume it's true unless there is contrary evidence rather than assuming it is false because there is no evidence.
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