HD800 for monitoring - Page 5

There is an old thread here in which he talks about using Koss Pro-4AA's but I don't know if he's just joking or not. As far as mixing and mastering using headphones he says:

By the way, never master or mix on headphones. A true no no...

Mixing on cans throws you off, gives you false mix levels, false EQ values and bad compression ratios. No recording engineer mixes on phones unless it's a live remote without monitors (like you see pictures of from the 1940's, with the engineer with cans).

Headphones are for listening.

proven WRONG yet still rationalizing. Your revered producer uses 701. Do you think ALO swaps out the transducers? Its still the AKG 701 sound sig. These are the same guys that charge 150 for a ipod LOD. Who knows, maybe Steve got them free or discounted as long as he mentioned them on his site. Seems he has some loyal followers out there.

I agree you should not mix on headphones ONLY. They are to be used in conjunction with studio monitors. Also, this statement was made BEFORE he recieved his 701. He only used the Koss before.

Just for the record, the guy is not a producer. I don't think he's ever produced anything in his life. He's a mastering engineer.

As far as what he thinks of the K701, he says he doesn't like the stock phone:

What are your impressions of the Woo Audio 6/AKG 701 synergy?

I thought it was great but ONLY with the 701 Ken Ball ALO Audio mod. Straight I found the cans cold and unemotional.

I want to start off by saying that I dont give a continental damn what steve hoffman, bob ludwig, or Jesus of Nazareth uses. they dont have my ears, so their preferences are useless to me.

anyway, We have a pair of these in the studio, along with 3 pairs of 701s and 2 pairs of HD600s(one each of the HD600 and 701 is mine). My business partner is a very well off gentleman, financially, and bought 3 pair of the 800s the day they came out(one for our studio, two as gifts
the HD800s are nice, but in my opinion(after being around them daily for several weeks now), they offer nothing substantial improvement wise over the 600s, Stax, or 701s. The 701s are my personal preference for mixing, recording, etc. I have the option of using them every time I am in the studio, but never do, and would never buy them.

for a 1400 dollar price tag, one would expect STAX level of quality..you know, something revolutionary. They do not.

hold on to your money, get the 600s, 701s, or (if you are spending much) get the Stax instead.

the biggest problem I find with these is their "etched, artificial" "hifi sheen" ...(their electronically EQd(gag) microphones, the mkh 800 has this similar "tizz" that I hate).... they are not natural, at all... the HF especially..

if youve ever heard DACS or GML 8302 mic amps, youd know what I am talking about... too much "hifi" to be realistic. and of course the 701s are imperfect. all headphones, all speakers are a compromise..this game is about determining which set of compromises suits you best. for what I do (recording largely acoustic based music(bluegrass, folk, choral, chamber music)), the HD800s are not desired.

it is also helpful to annotate industry affiliations in signatures...

of course YMMV, FYI, DSP, STD, RTFM, FU, FIR, PPM, DDT, LOL, EOM

so first he says they are FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED but a cable upgrade put the emotion back into the 701 and they are his headphone of choice now?
IpodPJ might want to look into an emotion REDUCTION mod for himself.
OK this is not the arguement to have here since he doesnt use them in the studio apparently. I dont know how i got involved in this discussion since I stated earlier that the K701 is not my cup of tea for casual use(It IS cold and unemotional) but mixing, I find it a useful tool. Thank you ffrr for more REAL WORLD studio experiences on the matter. Still, I'd really like to try the 800 both on my home rig and studio.

glad to provide some feedback. I will keep listening to them and posting thoughts. I do enjoy that they are on the "open" side(unlike some of the Grado offerings which I find to be terribly choked and sluggish(some call it "warm") and enjoy the comfortable fit..

but that is where my enjoyment stops. They are terribly expensive for what they offer..

Just not a good headphone... and I say that with the knowledge that I am in the minority.... I have learned to seperate myself from the gear that I own and use, to look at it from an outsider viewpoint, no emotionns clouding my judgment.

About the HD800, did you notice any phase distortion in the super highs area, or what members will describe as a hollow feeling in the highs?

Cool thread! Great to have input from folks who use these hps in the studio and make a living doing it. I'm a relative novice, but i love the k240DF's I purchased used on the for sale forum after reading numerous recommendations from folks more knowledgeable than myself. Perhaps I will move up to the 701's one day...or sideways to the 501's, budget permitting. For now I'm happy with the 240DF since they sound very close to my Event monitors....closer than the Equation RP-21, which Malcolm Toft says(FWIR) are the first headphones he could trust.

Yes...although I cannot attribute(because I do not know the cause) it to either of the causes you mentioned, I get the very strong feeling of something "not being right" with the high frequencies, an unbalanced, off-kilter sound.

If you have heard the DACS "clarity" mic amp, you perhaps would know what I am describing... "etched" synthetic.. it is the difference between , say...

uber bright Neon Hospital lights during a power spike vs a huge, illuminating bonfire. the fmr being the sound of the HD800s, the latter being the sound of the 701s, and to a lesser extent, the 600s.

They do with serious amping. With basic amping they do not. Interestingly, to get clean highs (on my pair) I had to use a serious amp. To get other than anaemic bass on my Lambda's I had to use serious amping. The Omega 2's are reputed to require very serious amping to get the treble to come out.

I think people are confusing headphone of choice for casual listening and headphone of choice for mastering. Nowhere does it say Steve Hoffman masters with them. His comments against them posted before referred to their faults when it comes to using them for mastering.

Also, if John Willet has something negative to say about the K701/K702, he can't post it according to the rules, so it's possible he wont comment on them.

Cool ffrr, I like this

Correct Currawong, this is what I mentioned as well. From what I read, except for situation, or budget, mastering on headphone is not desired in studio. And listening for 'living' and listening for pleasure has a totally different objective. Listening for professional does not need a nice 'cushion' or lush, but precision.

Monitor headphones in the studio are a reference tool like monitor speakers, and some studios have 2 or 3 sets of monitor speakers.

The headphones became a very important tool. They are easy and fun to engage into the mix, especially when I get tired after a long session on the speakers. High end headphones like K701/2 help me to stay focused on the mix and to monitor micro details at any level of the mix and the mastering process which requires very gentle adjustments.