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post #5611 of 5621
I have a question about the change of the opamp in a DAC.
According to your experience, how much the opamp swap will affect the SQ?
post #5612 of 5621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faber65 View Post

I have a question about the change of the opamp in a DAC.
According to your experience, how much the opamp swap will affect the SQ?

 

It depends on VERY many factors.......

 

To begin with, the weekest chain in the link limits the SQ.

That said it means that others, with maybe better ears, or better equipment / total chain, CAN hear differences others couldn't.

 

It's always very difficult to investigate what the weekest component in the chain is, but, to be honest, this is very important.

 

For example, are you listening on headphones only, or are you listing on a full set in your listening room?

 

Headphones can be VERY revealing, but listening to a set of very good speakers can reveal more than the best headphone set can, if room accoustics is optimal.

 

 

I am not avoiding your question, but we need more information to help you.

 

 

If equipment is optimal, and room accoustics are either, you definitely should hear a performance upgrade from an NE5532/34 for example to a LME49710/20 for example.

But, that would depend on your system.

 

If all optimal, I would say the difference could be HUGE, replacing simple and cheap/low cost opamps into high-end ones like the muses, or discrete options like Burson or Dexa,

yes, it could be HUGE, but, maybe in your set it would be a 5% difference or so, maybe 60%, who can tell.......

 

So, to answer to your question, switching opamp in a device CAN have a huge SQ increase, but all depends on the device which has to be upgraded, AND the chain it is in,

 

 

Sorry for this disappointing answer, but that is just the way it is,

 

Regards,

Alex


Edited by abartels - 3/31/17 at 10:56am
post #5613 of 5621
Quote:
Originally Posted by abartels View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faber65 View Post

I have a question about the change of the opamp in a DAC.

According to your experience, how much the opamp swap will affect the SQ?

It depends on VERY many factors.......

To begin with, the weekest chain in the link limits the SQ.
That said it means that others, with maybe better ears, or better equipment / total chain, CAN hear differences others couldn't.

It's always very difficult to investigate what the weekest component in the chain is, but, to be honest, this is very important.

For example, are you listening on headphones only, or are you listing on a full set in your listening room?

Headphones can be VERY revealing, but listening to a set of very good speakers can reveal more than the best headphone set can, if room accoustics is optimal.


I am not avoiding your question, but we need more information to help you.


If equipment is optimal, and room accoustics are either, you definitely should hear a performance upgrade from an NE5532/34 for example to a LME49710/20 for example.
But, that would depend on your system.

If all optimal, I would say the difference could be HUGE, replacing simple and cheap/low cost opamps into high-end ones like the muses, or discrete options like Burson or Dexa,
yes, it could be HUGE, but, maybe in your set it would be a 5% difference or so, maybe 60%, who can tell.......

So, to answer to your question, switching opamp in a device CAN have a huge SQ increase, but all depends on the device which has to be upgraded, AND the chain it is in,


Sorry for this disappointing answer, but that is just the way it is,

Regards,
Alex

Alex,

Your reply does a lot of sense to me and it is not disappointing at all.
I agree 100% with you, and I have experienced on that by swapping opamps on the Burson Lycan, as that was the purpose of that amplifier.
My question was more specific on replacing the opamp on a DAC.
Does it make the same difference that it does on the amplifiers?
I would like to have more opinions or measurements/data on that.

Cheers
F.
post #5614 of 5621

Hello,

 

Did you know a mono equivalent of the muses 8920 ?  (for a gustard H10 and a sb ZxR)

 

By the way I ve seen that njr start to tallk about a muses03 ... but well can't find any.

 

thx in advance !

post #5615 of 5621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faber65 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abartels View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faber65 View Post

I have a question about the change of the opamp in a DAC.

According to your experience, how much the opamp swap will affect the SQ?

It depends on VERY many factors.......

To begin with, the weekest chain in the link limits the SQ.
That said it means that others, with maybe better ears, or better equipment / total chain, CAN hear differences others couldn't.

It's always very difficult to investigate what the weekest component in the chain is, but, to be honest, this is very important.

For example, are you listening on headphones only, or are you listing on a full set in your listening room?

Headphones can be VERY revealing, but listening to a set of very good speakers can reveal more than the best headphone set can, if room accoustics is optimal.


I am not avoiding your question, but we need more information to help you.


If equipment is optimal, and room accoustics are either, you definitely should hear a performance upgrade from an NE5532/34 for example to a LME49710/20 for example.
But, that would depend on your system.

If all optimal, I would say the difference could be HUGE, replacing simple and cheap/low cost opamps into high-end ones like the muses, or discrete options like Burson or Dexa,
yes, it could be HUGE, but, maybe in your set it would be a 5% difference or so, maybe 60%, who can tell.......

So, to answer to your question, switching opamp in a device CAN have a huge SQ increase, but all depends on the device which has to be upgraded, AND the chain it is in,


Sorry for this disappointing answer, but that is just the way it is,

Regards,
Alex

Alex,

Your reply does a lot of sense to me and it is not disappointing at all.
I agree 100% with you, and I have experienced on that by swapping opamps on the Burson Lycan, as that was the purpose of that amplifier.
My question was more specific on replacing the opamp on a DAC.
Does it make the same difference that it does on the amplifiers?
I would like to have more opinions or measurements/data on that.

Cheers
F.

 

Theoratically it does make the same difference as in an amp. But, as always, our ears tell the truth, and measurements aren't always conclusive.....

post #5616 of 5621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faber65 View Post

I have a question about the change of the opamp in a DAC.
According to your experience, how much the opamp swap will affect the SQ?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faber65 View Post


Alex,

Your reply does a lot of sense to me and it is not disappointing at all.
I agree 100% with you, and I have experienced on that by swapping opamps on the Burson Lycan, as that was the purpose of that amplifier.
My question was more specific on replacing the opamp on a DAC.
Does it make the same difference that it does on the amplifiers?
I would like to have more opinions or measurements/data on that.

Cheers
F.

 

Hello, 

 

Basically, sound gets "recreated" in following stages:

- I/V converter (DAC)

- Low Pass Filter (DAC)

- Voltage Amplification Stage (amplifier)

- EQ or Loudness or any sort of sound correction/processing stage (amplifier)

 

So, any opamps swapped in one of the above stages may alter the sound, more or less. Usually, first thing to do when choosing the right opamp to upgrade with is comparing the specs; also, don't swap low-bandwidth opamps with high-bandwidth ones, because you't know if you have enough decoupling caps installed and also your PCB may not perform admirable too. 

 

As sometimes best sounding opamp is the one that oscillates more, please check for oscillations at the end of the upgrade. Have a read above:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/191389-swapping-op-amps-you-have-checked-see-its-stable-havent-you.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/278732-example-op-amp-oscillation-pics.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/153368-how-measure-op-amp-oscillation.html

http://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-101.pdf

post #5617 of 5621

In addition to the above, it can be said that minimizing components is the most logical action to improve the quality of the output signal.

post #5618 of 5621
Quote:
Originally Posted by raoultrifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faber65 View Post

I have a question about the change of the opamp in a DAC.

According to your experience, how much the opamp swap will affect the SQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faber65 View Post

Alex,


Your reply does a lot of sense to me and it is not disappointing at all.

I agree 100% with you, and I have experienced on that by swapping opamps on the Burson Lycan, as that was the purpose of that amplifier.

My question was more specific on replacing the opamp on a DAC.

Does it make the same difference that it does on the amplifiers?

I would like to have more opinions or measurements/data on that.


Cheers

F.

Hello, 

Basically, sound gets "recreated" in following stages:
- I/V converter (DAC)
- Low Pass Filter (DAC)
- Voltage Amplification Stage (amplifier)
- EQ or Loudness or any sort of sound correction/processing stage (amplifier)

So, any opamps swapped in one of the above stages may alter the sound, more or less. Usually, first thing to do when choosing the right opamp to upgrade with is comparing the specs; also, don't swap low-bandwidth opamps with high-bandwidth ones, because you't know if you have enough decoupling caps installed and also your PCB may not perform admirable too. 

As sometimes best sounding opamp is the one that oscillates more, please check for oscillations at the end of the upgrade. Have a read above:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/191389-swapping-op-amps-you-have-checked-see-its-stable-havent-you.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/278732-example-op-amp-oscillation-pics.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/153368-how-measure-op-amp-oscillation.html
http://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-101.pdf

Thank you and all the others for your replies.
post #5619 of 5621


​Hi Faber65,

 

Does anyone know if the Burson V5i's have decoupling caps built into the circuitry of the opamp?

 

Thanks

 

Ren

post #5620 of 5621

Hi, 

 

No caps in there and I don't think there are any opamps with decoupling caps included. Usually, schematic design engineers should take care of these caps, based on calculations and measurements done (depending on the PCB layout and implementation, PSU ripple & noise, external EMI/RFI interferences etc.). So, who designs the equipment should choose the correct cpas value and type.

 

See you!

post #5621 of 5621


​Thanks raoultrifan,

 

And agreed that the card manufacture should designate, but Burson sells their own caps for decoupling.

 

Ren

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