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The Opamp thread - Page 310

post #4636 of 4755

Somebody stop me, before I start rolling op-amps again!  :o

post #4637 of 4755
I have been AB'ing between the Muses 01 and 02 and whilst dismissive of the 01 over the 02 initially, I am beginning to like the 01 (a lot). I had been using the 02 pretty much exclusively with HD800's so that's what I used to initially evaluate the 01. I listened to the 01 tonight with my LCD3 and have to say there is a synergy.

The 02 with the HD800 is clean, detailed (as expected with HD800's) but never fatiguing. The 01 with the LCD3 is organic and musical. I am listening to Vataff Project - Maemoa, and I can't remember a time it sounded more analogue, involving....

I will order another of each rolleyes.gif oh man....
post #4638 of 4755

Most people I hear review the two always lean towards the 01 when they A/B them.  I am not sure if I am going to sit on my MUSES01 or sell it, it's genuine (straight from Japan).  However if I'm not going to change it again, it would be a waste to have an opamp like this just sitting.

post #4639 of 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpudHarris View Post

I have been AB'ing between the Muses 01 and 02 and whilst dismissive of the 01 over the 02 initially, I am beginning to like the 01 (a lot). I had been using the 02 pretty much exclusively with HD800's so that's what I used to initially evaluate the 01. I listened to the 01 tonight with my LCD3 and have to say there is a synergy.

The 02 with the HD800 is clean, detailed (as expected with HD800's) but never fatiguing. The 01 with the LCD3 is organic and musical. I am listening to Vataff Project - Maemoa, and I can't remember a time it sounded more analogue, involving....

I will order another of each rolleyes.gif oh man....

Makes sense to me, considering the difference between HD800 and LCD-2 (that I have).

:-)
post #4640 of 4755

Rolling opamps is cheaper than buying new headphones. Too bad the studios can't say which opamps they used for the final mix output for their master.

 

The various sound formats on newer DVD and Bluray make sounds even more enjoyable..

post #4641 of 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by razzz42 View Post
 

Rolling opamps is cheaper than buying new headphones. Too bad the studios can't say which opamps they used for the final mix output for their master.

 

The various sound formats on newer DVD and Bluray make sounds even more enjoyable..

You really need to take into consideration the amp itself.  You could put the same op-amp into two different amps and get entirely different sounds depending on the circuit design.  Think of it like synergy between headphones and an amp, or an amp and a dac etc. In one combination they might be the best thing since sliced bread, but another combo of equality good equipment might be hardly listenable.

 

Many pieces of studio gear that I've seen that use op-amps just use high quality jelly-bean (generic) versions like the NJM4556 which is quite a good op-amp especially considering the price, same company but none of the hype or buzz words of a MusesXX.

 

(***Just to be fair, I do really enjoy the Muses and am using the Muses8920 in one of my designs, but my amp will only have 5 op-amps, not practical for a Muses01/02 at my target price point, however it is worthwhile to step above the NJM4556/OPA2134 given the performance difference with the circuit configuration I'm using)

post #4642 of 4755

You also have to keep in mind you can change more than opamps, like changing out Primary/Secondaries/Headphone Amp capacitors (if that is possible on your specific DAC).

post #4643 of 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpudHarris View Post

I have been AB'ing between the Muses 01 and 02 and whilst dismissive of the 01 over the 02 initially, I am beginning to like the 01 (a lot). I had been using the 02 pretty much exclusively with HD800's so that's what I used to initially evaluate the 01. I listened to the 01 tonight with my LCD3 and have to say there is a synergy.

The 02 with the HD800 is clean, detailed (as expected with HD800's) but never fatiguing. The 01 with the LCD3 is organic and musical. I am listening to Vataff Project - Maemoa, and I can't remember a time it sounded more analogue, involving....

I will order another of each rolleyes.gif oh man....

Very interesting to read.

I am hoping to get some in few weeks time. I have been given the following information about the differences Muses01 & 02 is shown below, which I thought it would be interesting to share.

The real difference is that MUSES01 is JFET whereas the 02 is Bi-polar. The 01, being a JFET, has a much higher slew rate and they sound very different indeed. All JFET op-amps tend to sound brighter and tighter in the top end with Bi-polar’s tending to give a warmer sound. It’s a crude way of looking at them but as a ‘rule-of-thumb’ it works. The circuit around them obviously has an effect as well.

The majority of Europeans have gone for the warmth of the 02 against the tightness of the 01, but then we have European ears. If you go to Japan or China, they tend to prefer the 01, but then listen to a Japanese person singing and you’d notice they tend to have a higher pitched voice than an European. It is no surprise that they would go for the 01. Also, people who fall in love with reproduced music in Europe, particularly in the UK and the USA still have a fondness for vinyl and valves, it’s the warmth we seem to hear first, then the detail.
post #4644 of 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by highfell View Post

Very interesting to read.

I am hoping to get some in few weeks time. I have been given the following information about the differences Muses01 & 02 is shown below, which I thought it would be interesting to share.

The real difference is that MUSES01 is JFET whereas the 02 is Bi-polar. The 01, being a JFET, has a much higher slew rate and they sound very different indeed. All JFET op-amps tend to sound brighter and tighter in the top end with Bi-polar’s tending to give a warmer sound. It’s a crude way of looking at them but as a ‘rule-of-thumb’ it works. The circuit around them obviously has an effect as well.

The majority of Europeans have gone for the warmth of the 02 against the tightness of the 01, but then we have European ears. If you go to Japan or China, they tend to prefer the 01, but then listen to a Japanese person singing and you’d notice they tend to have a higher pitched voice than an European. It is no surprise that they would go for the 01. Also, people who fall in love with reproduced music in Europe, particularly in the UK and the USA still have a fondness for vinyl and valves, it’s the warmth we seem to hear first, then the detail.

To me the 02 has synergy with the HD800 which kind of figures considering it is the more mellow of the two OpAmps. Same goes for the 01 with the darker tone of the LCD3. I've tried all my phones with each OpAmp (in the same amp) and these are the two combos that float my boat. I can only imagine what an optimised circuit for each must sound like....
post #4645 of 4755

Such as the Xonar Essence One Muse Edition?

post #4646 of 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by highfell View Post


Very interesting to read.

I am hoping to get some in few weeks time. I have been given the following information about the differences Muses01 & 02 is shown below, which I thought it would be interesting to share.

The real difference is that MUSES01 is JFET whereas the 02 is Bi-polar. The 01, being a JFET, has a much higher slew rate and they sound very different indeed. All JFET op-amps tend to sound brighter and tighter in the top end with Bi-polar’s tending to give a warmer sound. It’s a crude way of looking at them but as a ‘rule-of-thumb’ it works. The circuit around them obviously has an effect as well.

The majority of Europeans have gone for the warmth of the 02 against the tightness of the 01, but then we have European ears. If you go to Japan or China, they tend to prefer the 01, but then listen to a Japanese person singing and you’d notice they tend to have a higher pitched voice than an European. It is no surprise that they would go for the 01. Also, people who fall in love with reproduced music in Europe, particularly in the UK and the USA still have a fondness for vinyl and valves, it’s the warmth we seem to hear first, then the detail.

Funny... I would prefer the brighter one of the two I think, so I will have to grab one of each to try with my LD1+ :)

post #4647 of 4755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin W. View Post
 

You really need to take into consideration the amp itself.  You could put the same op-amp into two different amps and get entirely different sounds depending on the circuit design.  Think of it like synergy between headphones and an amp, or an amp and a dac etc. In one combination they might be the best thing since sliced bread, but another combo of equality good equipment might be hardly listenable.

 

Many pieces of studio gear that I've seen that use op-amps just use high quality jelly-bean (generic) versions like the NJM4556 which is quite a good op-amp especially considering the price, same company but none of the hype or buzz words of a MusesXX.

 

(***Just to be fair, I do really enjoy the Muses and am using the Muses8920 in one of my designs, but my amp will only have 5 op-amps, not practical for a Muses01/02 at my target price point, however it is worthwhile to step above the NJM4556/OPA2134 given the performance difference with the circuit configuration I'm using)

Sure these mini platforms for audio production vary. A DAC surrounded by a bunch of cheap capacitors is not going to sound all that great. But none the less swapping different opamps will still change the sound output on whatever platform you are using.. It is getting to be a software manipulation as a primary sound adjustment(s) before conversion to analog output.

 

NJM4556 is a luxury compared to an older JRC5532D even though both sound pretty good in their own rights. OPA2134 is passe, was always kinda dark sounding. I have a 5.1 card and system but rely on stereo phones most of the time. Also have  Klipsch 4.1 and 5.1 subs (both have BASH circuitry) with upgraded larger Klipsch satellite speakers (Klipsch's 1" horns are really nice) but use the 4.1 sub in a stereo configuration...some fun when the bass kicks in. The 5.1 sub is outright scary.

 

I see a few retail platforms built around the MUSES (I would only use them in the buffer position)  and also for the LME49990MA. (IMHO is a superior opamp).

post #4648 of 4755

I built a CMoy recently and have a quality opamp on order (BB opa2132p) in the meantime, I have an opamp from ratshack sitting in it and ive done plenty of testing with it. (TL082C) I can report that its not bad for the money (like $2 i think) but you do get what you pay for. Both of the ones I got have had issues with DC offset (I will be resoldering the entire dang board today because I'm worried that it might be me to some extent) but as for quality.....they arent terrible. With a bass boost circuit added they gave some nice, clean, amplified bass (in the channel without the offset as I wouldn't dare plug my babies into a 54mv (104 after bass boost) offset)  Honestly these should only be used in situations where you want to test the circuit. They don't generally oscillate and they have a low quiescent current. But if you do end up doing any listening to these MAKE SURE to check DC offset first and also make sure you feed these a hefty 18v at least to prevent clipping (in a cmoy with no output stage. if you have an output stage then I cannot help you as I have not tested them with one)

 

I am interested in what the community thinks the current best dual opamp is....(I'm new and I'm not sure which Opamp is generally accepted as supreme)

post #4649 of 4755

I was working on a Klipsch 4.1 control pod (there are two models, the older V2.400 has a different layout). I have (3) 4.1 systems that needed certain upgrades due to overheating, some resistors, a zener and sometimes capacitors on the sub panel but this is first time a control pod has given me problems. Works but (even on cold start up)  has a faint scratchy sound with a occasional click or small pop. It fades in and out, disappears for a few seconds then comes back to haunt in the background through the sub and front speakers (I am not running rears). Volume and sub knobs only increase or lower the 'noise' volume. I tried heating the board up, spray cold air from a can, jabbing at the components, nothing affected the noise. Checked for obvious discolored solder pads, and bumt capacitors signs. Used an infrared thermometer gun to check for hot spots, nothing outstanding.  It's the controller board because a different controller works just fine. Wiring blocks and leads out are okay.

 

On board it has (2) NJM 5532D for the front and rear speakers and (1) TL082CN for the sub/lows output so I replaced the TL082CN with a DIP socket and plugged in other op-amps. Didn't help the phantom noise.

 

Now this socket position is for the lows so all my dark op-amps work really well. Like NJR/JRC OPA 627AU (single channel needs an adapter board) sounds really good with a nice thump. TI/BB 2134AP sounds good too on the lows. Muses01 wasn't to bad just a hair bass lite but clear. LM 4562N a bit flat but the bass was true (no exaggeration). AD 8066AR (dual channel but needs a DIP adapter board) slams, very hard hitting, overpowering. The stock TL082CN sounds good but you have to up the gain knob to a small sweet spot, if higher it begins to distort or just runs the lows all together at once. LME49990MA had a good strong clear sound across the entire range but was neutral when it came to the bass. Need those in the NJM 5532D places.

 

Anyway, the stock NJM 5532Ds have (4) ceramic capacitors on the backside of the board. Not sure what Klipsch was trying to do. Here's a schematics link. The link says, "The capacitors across the inputs of U1 and U2 are not part of the PCB, and are tacked onto the op-amp pins. It apparently helps eliminate oscillations."

 

 

[Edited for wrong link]


Edited by razzz42 - 2/5/14 at 4:35pm
post #4650 of 4755

I'd clean up that awful flux mess.

Flux can become conductive sometimes and cause shorts and problems.  Cleaning it up might even be the solution to your issue.


Edited by Mad Max - 2/8/14 at 12:26pm
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