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From HD650 to AD2000?

post #1 of 19
6/28/09 at 6:19am
Thread Starter 
So I'm thinking about selling my HD650 to fund my purchase for the AD2000.

I love the HD650 for many reasons: it's organic sound, incredible weight and presence, natural presentation, smoothness and liquidity. From the get-go though, I never felt like the HD650 were 'my sound', but I've spent 4 months with them and have really come to appreciate what they have to offer, and it will break my heart to have to let them go.

My main problem with the HD650, however, is that I find the sound uninvolving and unengaging. The sound is indeed beautiful and technically impressive, but it lacks a visceral, emotive quality. It's a very impersonal kind of enjoyment for me with the HD650.

I've read extensively about the AD2000 (and other phones) and auditioned it once (albeit on a less-than-ideal setup), and it sounds like what I'm looking for: mid-range and vocal-centric, airy, tight, textured and well-extended bass, detailed, fast, yet with good sound staging.

I know there are certain things that are going to be compromised going from a HD650 to AD2000, such as the warmth, weight and presence, and timbral accuracy of the HD650, but I guess one can't really have it all...

I will probably be driving the AD2000 with the Audio-gd C-2C; I'm on an extremely tight budget.

Some questions:

I see lots of AD2000s changing hands on the For Sale/Trade forum and this concerns me - is there something wrong with their presentation?

Are the AD2000 less refined/less detailed cans than the HD650?

Am I making a wise decision?
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post #2 of 19
6/28/09 at 6:29am
I think this is too much a personal preference matter for any advice really.
I had both headphones side by side and sold the AD2000 quickly, but that's me.
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post #3 of 19
6/28/09 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 
What was it about the AD2000 that you didn't like?
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post #4 of 19
6/28/09 at 6:43am
The AD2000 I found to be a bit too much of everything. Made a bit too much of a spectacle of every piece of music. And it did something weird with positioning. It placed everything far apart in the soundstage, when they were supposed to be much closer together. Like the singer of the band was right up in your face, with a three feet wide mouth and the guitar player 30 feet to the left and 7 feet up in the air... I never experienced anything as extreme as that with any other headphones.
I got tired listening to them.
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post #5 of 19
6/28/09 at 7:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoosuicide View Post
Are the AD2000 less refined/less detailed cans than the HD650?
Detailed: after spending some time with the AD2000 you might be left thinking that the HD650 is terrible as far as resolution goes.

Refined: as far as the "organic sound, incredible weight and presence, natural presentation, smoothness and liquidity" goes few headphones can match the HD650, but yes if you are looking for visceral, emotive quality few headphones can match the AD2000 too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoosuicide View Post
I see lots of AD2000s changing hands on the For Sale/Trade forum and this concerns me - is there something wrong with their presentation?
I suspect the reason for that is that the price of the AD2000 has been rising greatly the past few months which makes selling them and buying them second-handed attractive. But in any case I think that the AD2000 has gotten far too much hate at times in head-fi, most of it is due to the fact that its fit is terribly tight when you first get the AD2000 and that besides causing some comfort problems also causes some of the soundstage/midrange problems that some people here complain about. But after stretching them/using them for a while the clamping force looses and these issues are gone. To me the AD2000 is certainly a big upgrade from the HD650, maybe getting them will make you remember why you disliked the HD650 when you first got them.

There was a time when you can laugh at all those RS1 owners cause the AD2000 offers the same thing plus more at a lower price, but nowadays the AD2000 is a bit expensive at $799. Still, there's no phone that can offer what it offers. If you are looking for something that sounds like the HD650 but is more exciting, another good option to go for is the D7000.
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post #6 of 19
6/28/09 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees View Post
The AD2000 I found to be a bit too much of everything. Made a bit too much of a spectacle of every piece of music. And it did something weird with positioning. It placed everything far apart in the soundstage, when they were supposed to be much closer together. Like the singer of the band was right up in your face, with a three feet wide mouth and the guitar player 30 feet to the left and 7 feet up in the air... I never experienced anything as extreme as that with any other headphones.
I got tired listening to them.
This is how I feel about AD2000, and this is my comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cankin View Post
After reading comments by those I trust, I sold both my HD600 and HD650 a while back to fund the purchase of the AD2000, here are what I feel about this AT headphone compare to both HD6X0s:

+ really good build quality(except the cable)
+ detail, good midbass
- a little bit brighter/ more fragile than I'd like
- soundstage is smaller with a weird shape, the singer is right in front of you and the left and right of the stage are miles behind the singer
- less bass than I'd like
- upfront but dry, muffle and uninvolving midrange
- clamps tighter than both HD6X0s
- the cable is thin but hard, microphonic with open headphone!

None of the above are major faults, but when they added up, it is a faulted headphone to match my sonic preference. I was so disappointed and I bought another pair of HD650.


Even though I hate AD2000, I'd recommend you should at least try it for yourself, we may not have same preferences.

shampoosuicide: AD2000 is a love and hate kind of headphone, there are many other members like it, buy used and you can sell it at min. loss if you don't like it.
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post #7 of 19
6/28/09 at 12:00pm

Try Them and See...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoosuicide View Post
So I'm thinking about selling my HD650 to fund my purchase for the AD2000.

I love the HD650 for many reasons: it's organic sound, incredible weight and presence, natural presentation, smoothness and liquidity. From the get-go though, I never felt like the HD650 were 'my sound', but I've spent 4 months with them and have really come to appreciate what they have to offer, and it will break my heart to have to let them go.

My main problem with the HD650, however, is that I find the sound uninvolving and unengaging. The sound is indeed beautiful and technically impressive, but it lacks a visceral, emotive quality. It's a very impersonal kind of enjoyment for me with the HD650.

I've read extensively about the AD2000 (and other phones) and auditioned it once (albeit on a less-than-ideal setup), and it sounds like what I'm looking for: mid-range and vocal-centric, airy, tight, textured and well-extended bass, detailed, fast, yet with good sound staging.

I know there are certain things that are going to be compromised going from a HD650 to AD2000, such as the warmth, weight and presence, and timbral accuracy of the HD650, but I guess one can't really have it all...

I will probably be driving the AD2000 with the Audio-gd C-2C; I'm on an extremely tight budget.

Some questions:

I see lots of AD2000s changing hands on the For Sale/Trade forum and this concerns me - is there something wrong with their presentation?

Are the AD2000 less refined/less detailed cans than the HD650?

Am I making a wise decision?
You really need to give them a try and see what you think. You can always return to the HD650s, or D7000s, if you decide you like them better.

The AD2000s are a cross between the "new" HD580/600/650s and the RS-1s - greater perception of speed, detail, separation and air than the Senns, yet with a bit of a warm, weighty sound, with good impact.

They do need to be well burnt in to realize their sound, and mated with the right set up. They also benefit a lot from the pad mod to space the drivers a bit further from your ears. Otherwise, they can sound a bit aggressive in the upper mids. And... they do have a tight fit. But... burnt in, with the right set up they're one of the best.
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post #8 of 19
6/28/09 at 1:27pm
Initially I was very impressed with the D2000. It had heavy bass and a punchy sound, I thought I had a keeper. I had been using it for several months as my main headphone and it was going well until I pulled out my neglected HD580. I was blown away by how much better they sounded to me. After going back between the two and analyzing the sound of each headphone I found the D2000 to be inferior. It sounded too unrealistic to me. The highs overlapped the mids which were too recessed for my liking. The bass was too boomy and too much. Its not a bad headphone but I felt it was designed to mesh with more modern music which also exhibits the same v shaped sound. Really what it comes down to is what kind of music you like. The HD650 will in my opinion handle more genres better. For my music tastes the D2000 just wasn't a good fit.
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post #9 of 19
6/28/09 at 1:30pm
youre probably talking about the wrong headphone... Audio Technica ad2000 is not the Denon d2000
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post #10 of 19
6/28/09 at 1:38pm
tdogzthmn, do you mean D2000 as in Denon? If so you might have misread the thread which is about Audio Technica ATH-AD2000, if not sorry for asking.
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post #11 of 19
6/28/09 at 1:58pm
It's rather difficult to compare these two phones with budget components, imo. If your budget is tight, you're simply not going to hear the best that these phones have to offer. I honestly don't know if it's possible for under about $3k worth of source and amp (both balanced, hopefully), and that's going the DIY route.

Most mid-fi amps, especially tubes, will tend to favor one or the other, basically due to output impedances and other design compromises. For instance, my OTL Singlepower amp has trouble bringing out the best of my AD2000s.

The amplification requirements of the HD650 are well-documented, but I think many people have the wrong idea about amping efficient phones like AD2000s or RS1s. They're easy to amp to mediocrity, but a truly top-flight amp is needed to bring out their best. At the top of the mountain, I think RS1s and AD2000s both destroy the HD650s. I never totally understood the greatness of the AD2000s until I heard them from the Zana and Balancing Act. Maybe the HD650s are actually easier to amp than the AD2000s?

PS: don't forget the source. Never forget the source. I'm talking about monsters like Ironbut's R2R or Eddie Current's one-of-a-kind DAC or maybe an EMM SE stack... Summit-Fi type stuff is not overkill for these 2 headphones.
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post #12 of 19
6/28/09 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoosuicide View Post
So I'm thinking about selling my HD650 to fund my purchase for the AD2000.

I love the HD650 for many reasons: it's organic sound, incredible weight and presence, natural presentation, smoothness and liquidity. From the get-go though, I never felt like the HD650 were 'my sound', but I've spent 4 months with them and have really come to appreciate what they have to offer, and it will break my heart to have to let them go.

My main problem with the HD650, however, is that I find the sound uninvolving and unengaging. The sound is indeed beautiful and technically impressive, but it lacks a visceral, emotive quality. It's a very impersonal kind of enjoyment for me with the HD650.
I felt the same way about my HD650 (powered by DAC1 XLR outputs). And when I tried the AD2000 for several days, I liked its airiness but still preferred the HD650 for being better all-around can. Later on, I've heard markl D5000 and was blown away, it had a similar sound signature to HD650 but was better at everything (except sound stage). Its more detailed, punchy, alive and without the veil. YMMV.
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post #13 of 19
6/28/09 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoosuicide View Post
I've read extensively about the AD2000 (and other phones) and auditioned it once (albeit on a less-than-ideal setup), and it sounds like what I'm looking for: mid-range and vocal-centric, airy, tight, textured and well-extended bass, detailed, fast, yet with good sound staging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
I felt the same way about my HD650 (powered by DAC1 XLR outputs). And when I tried the AD2000 for several days, I liked its airiness but still preferred the HD650 for being better all-around can. Later on, I've heard markl D5000 and was blown away, it had a similar sound signature to HD650 but was better at everything (except sound stage). Its more detailed, punchy, alive and without the veil. YMMV.
I have not tried both HD650 and markl mod D5000, but i owned both AD2000 and stock D5000. D5000 IMO is no way mid-range and vocal centric like what shampoosuicide looking for. It has recessed mid-range (might due to the bommy bass) compared to my MS1/AD2000.
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post #14 of 19
6/28/09 at 5:47pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks all for the input so far, you've given some very helpful info.

@Kees and Cankin: Did you try the pad mod/stretch the headphone band, and if so, did it solve the issues you had with the AD2000 (ie. sound staging)?

@Gradofan2: How did you find the AD2000 without the pad mod? What material did you use for the mod? Did your AD2000 change as the headphone band loosened?

@atothex: I appreciate your input, but I'm still in high school, and I don't have a part-time job, so we'll just have to work with that at the moment...

@gevorg: The markl D5000 are one of the phones I'm considering as well, but like teNtiOn says below, I'm thinking I'll prefer the AD2000 because of the airy, mid-range centric sound. Could you briefly compare the AD2000 and HD650? What did you like/dislike about each?

@teNtiOn: Could you compare the MS-1 and AD2000? I owned the MS-1 for a while, so this could be a useful reference point.
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post #15 of 19
6/28/09 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teNtiOn View Post
I have not tried both HD650 and markl mod D5000, but i owned both AD2000 and stock D5000. D5000 IMO is no way mid-range and vocal centric like what shampoosuicide looking for. It has recessed mid-range (might due to the bommy bass) compared to my MS1/AD2000.
I do not hear any recessed midrange in D5000, probably because I use a markl modded version with much more controlled bass. I do agree that its not a midrange or vocal centric headphone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoosuicide View Post

@gevorg: The markl D5000 are one of the phones I'm considering as well, but like teNtiOn says below, I'm thinking I'll prefer the AD2000 because of the airy, mid-range centric sound. Could you briefly compare the AD2000 and HD650? What did you like/dislike about each?
Unfortunately I do not have either one of them to compare, so all I can tell from memory was that I preferred HD650s over AD2000. I do remember AD2000s having more airy sound which was nice. Here are some interesting reviews:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/com...-hd650-321787/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ad2...e-help-322905/
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