or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Home-Made IEMs - Page 120

post #1786 of 5623
Bore it before assembly ;-)
post #1787 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

Generally, BA mounting is done with a type of UV-cured acrylic.

 

I suppose epoxy resin might be viable, though.

 

I would avoid using superglue, if possible, because of the fumes it gives-off, which may, potentially, cause damage to components.

 

Superglue fumes are even used in forensics, for the purpose of 'fixing' invisible fingerprints - cyanoacrylate fumes should not be underestimated and although some may disagree with me, I would personally never use superglue anywhere near balanced armatures; not for fixing them in place, nor for affixing tubing to the BA nozzles.

Ok thanks,

I suppose I will use my faceplate glue then for that purpose as well.

post #1788 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMOS1138 View Post
 

I would love to see a picture of a horn design actually implemented. I have red about the advantages for high frequency response, I just can't imagine having sufficient space in the ear canal to make one unless you are only using one sound port. I suppose it would be possible to bore out the end of the high frequency port after assembly but I would be concerned with getting debris inside the rest of the sound tube.

Better do it single bore, there won't be enough space for multi-bore with 1 horn unless your ear canals are literally straight with virtually no bend (I've seen some people like that though). 

 

Personally I see no point of having a horn for CIEM. Better implement it on universal.

 

I did it once before, but the design was based on Suyama-san's own pair so don't ask me about details, I'm not allowed to reveal it. Just saying it's definitely possible and fairly easy to do.

 

post #1789 of 5623
thanks, I do plan on a single bore. I'm using the gq series driver which has a woofer tweeter combo using a single port.

tranhieu,
why do you say there is no point on a ciem?
post #1790 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 

Better do it single bore, there won't be enough space for multi-bore with 1 horn unless your ear canals are literally straight with virtually no bend (I've seen some people like that though). 

 

Personally I see no point of having a horn for CIEM. Better implement it on universal.

 

I did it once before, but the design was based on Suyama-san's own pair so don't ask me about details, I'm not allowed to reveal it. Just saying it's definitely possible and fairly easy to do.

 

Someone's using AcuPass :>

 

I don't agree with opinion there's no point for that. With tube at still usable length of say 18mm you can boost very audible range. It gives you more highs from one driver, it can be crucial for keeping the cost down - instead of using 3 driver - you can use 2 and get similar response (although not the same sound)

post #1791 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 

Someone's using AcuPass :>

 

I don't agree with opinion there's no point for that. With tube at still usable length of say 18mm you can boost very audible range. It gives you more highs from one driver, it can be crucial for keeping the cost down - instead of using 3 driver - you can use 2 and get similar response (although not the same sound)

Opps I forgot Peter is still lurking around here lol

 

Anyway, the problem with making (long) horns for tweeters is that silicone tube has to be used no matter what, and I'm not a fan of it. It's common knowledge that high frequencies are affected by transmission path the most. I don't have the exact figure but I'm pretty sure absorbing coefficient of silicone isn't that ideal compared to, say titanium (I'm a big fan of that material btw). Plus it's always recommended to have a straight transmission path for tweeters, which is virtually impossible with CIEM shells. To me, when using long horns with CIEMs you are actualy amplifying degenerated high frequencies due to the use of long silicone tube (no offence here Peter, I like your work, it's just me being not comfortable with silicone, that's all).

 

Btw that prototype up there used no silicone for its tubing ;)

 

And if you guys look at how IEMs are designed these days, treble extension is not the top priority out there, unless you want to create a mini HD800. Most people above thirty can't really detect frequencies above 16khz during normal listening so why aim for something higher than that? The only obvious advantage I can see in horns is their capability of lowering the impedance at the tweeter's nozzle to smooth out the upper region. However CIEMs in general don't really need that feature because of their deep insertion.

 

A short horn is do-able, but there's not much point in having one though.


Edited by tranhieu - 6/12/14 at 8:17am
post #1792 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 

Opps I forgot Peter is still lurking around here lol

 

Anyway, the problem with making (long) horns for tweeters is that silicone tube has to be used no matter what, and I'm not a fan of it. It's common knowledge that high frequencies are affected by transmission path the most. I don't have the exact figure but I'm pretty sure absorbing coefficient of silicone isn't that ideal compared to, say titanium (I'm a big fan of that material btw). Plus it's always recommended to have a straight transmission path for tweeters, which is virtually impossible with CIEM shells. To me, when using long horns with CIEMs you are actualy amplifying degenerated high frequencies due to the use of long silicone tube (no offence here Peter, I like your work, it's just me being not comfortable with silicone, that's all).

 

Btw that prototype up there used no silicone for its tubing ;)

 

And if you guys look at how IEMs are designed these days, treble extension is not the top priority out there, unless you want to create a mini HD800. Most people above thirty can't really detect frequencies above 16khz during normal listening so why aim for something higher than that? The only obvious advantage I can see in horns is their capability of lowering the impedance at the tweeter's nozzle to smooth out the upper region. However CIEMs in general don't really need that feature because of their deep insertion.

 

A short horn is do-able, but there's not much point in having one though.

 

Then, I guess FAD was up to something when they decided to use titanium 3D printing for the LAB I... :D

post #1793 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 

Opps I forgot Peter is still lurking around here lol

 

Anyway, the problem with making (long) horns for tweeters is that silicone tube has to be used no matter what, and I'm not a fan of it. It's common knowledge that high frequencies are affected by transmission path the most. I don't have the exact figure but I'm pretty sure absorbing coefficient of silicone isn't that ideal compared to, say titanium (I'm a big fan of that material btw). Plus it's always recommended to have a straight transmission path for tweeters, which is virtually impossible with CIEM shells. To me, when using long horns with CIEMs you are actualy amplifying degenerated high frequencies due to the use of long silicone tube (no offence here Peter, I like your work, it's just me being not comfortable with silicone, that's all).

 

Btw that prototype up there used no silicone for its tubing ;)

 

And if you guys look at how IEMs are designed these days, treble extension is not the top priority out there, unless you want to create a mini HD800. Most people above thirty can't really detect frequencies above 16khz during normal listening so why aim for something higher than that? The only obvious advantage I can see in horns is their capability of lowering the impedance at the tweeter's nozzle to smooth out the upper region. However CIEMs in general don't really need that feature because of their deep insertion.

 

A short horn is do-able, but there's not much point in having one though.


Haha ;) yeah I am

 

I don't use silicone tubing actually. I use regular PVC.

 

I obviously don't want to talk details of my designs, but f.e. Music Two amplifies range that makes actual difference - it's in audible range for any person with healthy hearing.

post #1794 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 

.... if you guys look at how IEMs are designed these days, treble extension is not the top priority out there, unless you want to create a mini HD800. Most people above thirty can't really detect frequencies above 16khz during normal listening so why aim for something higher than that? The only obvious advantage I can see in horns is their capability of lowering the impedance at the tweeter's nozzle to smooth out the upper region. However CIEMs in general don't really need that feature because of their deep insertion.

 

 

Well... Hidition seem pretty keen on ensuring ample treble extension, so there are some (both vendors and customers) who care about this aspect! LOL :tongue:

 

And let's not forget that the HD800 you mentioned is rather popular (though not exclusively for it's treble extension, obviously)

 

 

 

NT6 FR chart:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/589208/hidition-nt-6-custom-iem-review-the-ultimate-reference/330#post_10597796

 

 

NT6 Pro FR chart:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/627365/custom-iem-review-hidition-nt-6-pro-clear-precise-fun/330#post_10594609

 

 

 

.


Edited by Mython - 6/12/14 at 9:10am
post #1795 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 

Opps I forgot Peter is still lurking around here lol

 

Anyway, the problem with making (long) horns for tweeters is that silicone tube has to be used no matter what, and I'm not a fan of it. It's common knowledge that high frequencies are affected by transmission path the most. I don't have the exact figure but I'm pretty sure absorbing coefficient of silicone isn't that ideal compared to, say titanium (I'm a big fan of that material btw). Plus it's always recommended to have a straight transmission path for tweeters, which is virtually impossible with CIEM shells. To me, when using long horns with CIEMs you are actualy amplifying degenerated high frequencies due to the use of long silicone tube (no offence here Peter, I like your work, it's just me being not comfortable with silicone, that's all).

 

Btw that prototype up there used no silicone for its tubing ;)

 

And if you guys look at how IEMs are designed these days, treble extension is not the top priority out there, unless you want to create a mini HD800. Most people above thirty can't really detect frequencies above 16khz during normal listening so why aim for something higher than that? The only obvious advantage I can see in horns is their capability of lowering the impedance at the tweeter's nozzle to smooth out the upper region. However CIEMs in general don't really need that feature because of their deep insertion.

 

A short horn is do-able, but there's not much point in having one though.

Thank you for detailed explanation.  

post #1796 of 5623

FYI those graphs are not made sine wave into IEC711 coupler, unless they are compensated in some way.

post #1797 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

Then, I guess FAD was up to something when they decided to use titanium 3D printing for the LAB I... :D

Er...What does 3D printing have anything to do with tubing? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 


Haha ;) yeah I am

 

I don't use silicone tubing actually. I use regular PVC.

 

I obviously don't want to talk details of my designs, but f.e. Music Two amplifies range that makes actual difference - it's in audible range for any person with healthy hearing.

 

Yeah, PVC is much better than silicone, I'm still using it for tubing. But there's still a clear difference when you measure the response via PVC and titanium though. 

 

I do use horns when designing universal, but reaching 16-18khz is enough for me. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

Well... Hidition seem pretty keen on ensuring ample treble extension, so there are some (both vendors and customers) who care about this aspect! LOL :tongue:

 

And let's not forget that the HD800 you mentioned is rather popular (though not exclusively for it's treble extension, obviously)

 

NT6 FR chart:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/589208/hidition-nt-6-custom-iem-review-the-ultimate-reference/330#post_10597796

 

NT6 Pro FR chart:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/627365/custom-iem-review-hidition-nt-6-pro-clear-precise-fun/330#post_10594609

My bad, what I was trying to say was unless you want something reference similar to the HD800 (or whatever highly regarded referenced fones out there), there's no need to reach that high.

post #1798 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post  FYI those graphs are not made sine wave into IEC711 coupler, unless they are compensated in some way.

 

Yeah, I think they're DF compensated with a -1 dB/octave gradient from 1 kHz for a target response. Characteristic 711 10-12k resonance is there.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post  Er...What does 3D printing have anything to do with tubing? 

 

Then you can 3D print the horn... of course, then you'd have to 3D scan the impressions to know how to print the horn, though.

post #1799 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post
 

My bad, what I was trying to say was unless you want something reference similar to the HD800 (or whatever highly regarded referenced fones out there), there's no need to reach that high.

 

 

Yeah, I took your point, really :regular_smile :; I was just being playful in 'returning your serve' a bit :wink_face:

 

 

Truth be told, I'm out of my depth with you lot who have significant experience with CIEM building. For me, it's (thus far) just of casual intellectual interest.

post #1800 of 5623
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjp007 View Post
 

Thank you for detailed explanation.  

 

Glad to be of help :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

Then you can 3D print the horn... of course, then you'd have to 3D scan the impressions to know how to print the horn, though.

Then it's gonna be one hell of a printer. I tried printing the horn once and gave up that idea right away. CNC offers much better accuracy at far lower cost compared with 3D printing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

 

Yeah, I took your point, really :regular_smile :; I was just being playful in 'returning your serve' a bit :wink_face:

 

 

Truth be told, I'm out of my depth with you lot who have significant experience with CIEM building. For me, it's (thus far) just of casual intellectual interest.

LOL you got me good. 

 

I'm also doing this purely for fun. The cost is a bit err though...

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home