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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 539

post #8071 of 8082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


Now that you mention it, I did think the T1 was brighter than the DT880.
I only heard the T1s for a dew minutes, really not long enough for me to form a good opinion.

 

Hi Chris - I did an in-depth a while back with the two side by side.  Might interest.  The two sound very, very similar.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/727739/comparison-review-beyerdynamic-s-siblings-the-classic-dt880-vs-the-flagship-t1

post #8072 of 8082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

Hi Chris - I did an in-depth a while back with the two side by side.  Might interest.  The two sound very, very similar.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/727739/comparison-review-beyerdynamic-s-siblings-the-classic-dt880-vs-the-flagship-t1

But it has subjective impressions! eek.gif
We can't have those on Head Fi! biggrin.gif
post #8073 of 8082

Objectively subjective though ;)

post #8074 of 8082
Please read my review to see why I SHELVED my DT 880 for the Shure SRH 940. Yes, they're THAT much better!!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/533716/shure-srh-940-impression-and-support-thread/3825 (see my review towards bottom of page)
post #8075 of 8082
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post

Please read my review to see why I SHELVED my DT 880 for the Shure SRH 940. Yes, they're THAT much better!!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/533716/shure-srh-940-impression-and-support-thread/3825 (see my review towards bottom of page)

 

Hmmmm - interesting.  I read it.  Pleased they work for you, but as an ex owner of both (so I had quite a bit of time with both), here's what I think .....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post

This is my review after thoroughly testing the SRH 940s yesterday. 
 

 This was the first bit that set off alarm bells.  You've "thoroughly" tested the SRH 940 for one day - and they're better than the DT880 - OK .....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post

The headphones are a hybrid plastic/metal combo with a sturdy and comfortable feel.
 

Suggest you google SRH940 and "broken headband".  It's one of the poorest builds Shure ever put together and has a history of breaking - even if you take immaculate care of them.  As far as long term comfort goes - those bumps on the headband also got annoying after a while for me.  As far as comfort and build goes - the DT880 are miles ahead.  Guarantee the majority will think the same.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post

BASS: About 7.5/10 for tonal accuracy. 10/10 for speed/dynamics ('punch"). More bass then the Beyer. DT 880 (32 ohm), less than the ATH M40, and way less then M50 - which is a GREAT thing!!!

MIDS: About 7/10 for tonal accuracy. 9/10 for dynamics. Realistic, warm, detailed, pleasing, non-fatiguing but perhaps not quite 'organic' due to a slight emphasis in this spectrum.

TREBLE: 9/10 for accuracy and a real 'sharp shooter' sounding very correct and non-fatiguing.

SOUNDSTAGE: Great and lifelike, almost as 3-dimentional as Beyer. DT 880s open can.
 
Bass is OK - I'd argue that the DT880 is far more linear with better sub-bass.  SRH940 also has a notch between mid and sub bass that's hard to pick up at first - but over time you may find it annoying. It's one of the things that led to me selling my pair.  The bass on the 940's is fast anyway - but I doubt there would be more bass than the DT880.  Did you level match when you were making your comparison?
 
Mids - yep they are warm and dry, slightly euphonic, very forward and very coloured, and not in the slightest what I would call "realistic".

 

Treble accurate - um, not really.  Let's agree to disagree on that one.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post

Upon doing an A / B comparison with these and the Beyer. DT 880s (albeing the 880s being open), I finally, after 3 years shelved the 880s. I finally realized that the 880s are somewhat midrange recessed in comparison, and reconfirmed my theory that the 880s are also not fully dynamic/fast/punchy, especially in comparison with these.

 

The DT880 isn't mid-range recessed, it's actually pretty flat - one of the more neutral headphones I've heard.  the difference is that the SRH940 is quite mid-forward.  Easy to listen to the 940 though and draw the wrong conclusion.

 

Again though - with your A/B comparison - did you volume match the two headphones, and how?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post

All off my testing had been done with a Modi DAC + Magni amp. I had also compared these SRH 940s directly to the laptop headphone jack unamped (with the same part of the same song looped) and noticed how the bass was SO LAZY / SLOW AND ALL OVER THE PLACE UNAMPED compared to the tight / controlled bass with this on a mid/low level amp, so DEFINITELY THESE BENEFIT FROM AN AMP!!!
 

Yeah - nah!  I'd ask again about the volume matching - but it's pretty obvious you didn't.  Don't worry - it's an easy mistake to make. What is louder to us sounds better - it's the way we are wired.  As far as the 940 benefiting from an amp - it's a headphone with 42 ohm impedance and a sensitivity of 100 dB mW IE it's designed to sound really good out of even a smartphone.  IMO it didn't benefit from amping - and what you're describing doesn't gel with the actual specifications or my own experience.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post

The soundstage / imagining was excellent, but maybe not quite as natural sounding or 3D like as the 880s. If I had to say, I'd guess I got a front-row soundstage feeling. If I HAD to complain, I would say the bass does not extend low enough in the sub-bass realm, and perhaps the midrange & treble has about 1-2 decibels too forward - but not enough to make me wanna EQ anything yet.
 

Agree with you on the sound stage - the SRH940 isn't too bad for a closed can.  The DT880 is far better with both imaging and staging though.  Also agree with your comments on lack of bass, and too forward mid-range with the SRH940.

 

Hey I'm pleased the 940's tick your boxes - enjoy them. Just beware about making a lot of claims about the cans (especially in a DT880 appreciation thread!), when you've had them less than a day, and don't really know them that well.  Come back in 4-6 weeks wehn you've grown used to their signature and can give a balanced comparison between the two (without the new toy syndrome hype) - and I'm sure you'll get some interest in what you have to report.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post

These were better enough to make me shelf the Beyer. DT 880s and although I haven't yet tried the Shure SRH 1440 1840 yet I would DEFINITELY recommend getting these instead because Shure does seem to sure get the closed-back sound imaging correct, whereas those other two would seem just to be pricier, too much bass and too open.
 

This is the bit that made me smile the most. You haven't heard the SRH1840 or SRH1440, yet you already appear to know their signature and imaging ability (which you've got totally wrong by the way), and are ready to recommend the SRH940 regardless .......

 

I owned the SRH1840 as well - similar tonality to an HD600 in many ways - just without the mid-bass hump.  Very, very neutral.  Not an expansive stage, but magical imaging.  Far better bass quality than the SRH940, and far more comfortable.  I've seen them occasionally for as low as $350 second hand, and I would have rebought it again if I didn't have my HD600 and T1.

 

Anyway - I digress.  Sorry if it sounds as though I'm picking your post to pieces - I guess I am, but not trying to attack you personally.  I'd suggest taking some time to get to know your headphones first, and see if you can volume match with an spl meter (smartphone and app with standard test tones can get you to within 1dB), when making comparisons.

 

Enjoy the SRH940 - they are definitely euphoric sounding when you first get them.  For me personally, that wore off in a few weeks, and I got to realise they were a bit too coloured for my personal tastes.  The DT880 though - pure magic. I'd still have mine if I hadn't switched to the T1.  And that's a whole different ball game ;) 


Edited by Brooko - Yesterday at 9:40 pm
post #8076 of 8082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

Hmmmm - interesting.  I read it.  Pleased they work for you, but as an ex owner of both (so I had quite a bit of time with both), here's what I think .....

 This was the first bit that set off alarm bells.  You've "thoroughly" tested the SRH 940 for one day - and they're better than the DT880 - OK .....

Suggest you google SRH940 and "broken headband".  It's one of the poorest builds Shure ever put together and has a history of breaking - even if you take immaculate care of them.  As far as long term comfort goes - those bumps on the headband also got annoying after a while for me.  As far as comfort and build goes - the DT880 are miles ahead.  Guarantee the majority will think the same.

Bass is OK - I'd argue that the DT880 is far more linear with better sub-bass.  SRH940 also has a notch between mid and sub bass that's hard to pick up at first - but over time you may find it annoying. It's one of the things that led to me selling my pair.  The bass on the 940's is fast anyway - but I doubt there would be more bass than the DT880.  Did you level match when you were making your comparison?
 
Mids - yep they are warm and dry, slightly euphonic, very forward and very coloured, and not in the slightest what I would call "realistic".

Treble accurate - um, not really.  Let's agree to disagree on that one.


The DT880 isn't mid-range recessed, it's actually pretty flat - one of the more neutral headphones I've heard.  the difference is that the SRH940 is quite mid-forward.  Easy to listen to the 940 though and draw the wrong conclusion.

Again though - with your A/B comparison - did you volume match the two headphones, and how?

Yeah - nah!  I'd ask again about the volume matching - but it's pretty obvious you didn't.  Don't worry - it's an easy mistake to make. What is louder to us sounds better - it's the way we are wired.  As far as the 940 benefiting from an amp - it's a headphone with 42 ohm impedance and a sensitivity of 100 dB mW IE it's designed to sound really good out of even a smartphone.  IMO it didn't benefit from amping - and what you're describing doesn't gel with the actual specifications or my own experience.

Agree with you on the sound stage - the SRH940 isn't too bad for a closed can.  The DT880 is far better with both imaging and staging though.  Also agree with your comments on lack of bass, and too forward mid-range with the SRH940.

Hey I'm pleased the 940's tick your boxes - enjoy them. Just beware about making a lot of claims about the cans (especially in a DT880 appreciation thread!), when you've had them less than a day, and don't really know them that well.  Come back in 4-6 weeks wehn you've grown used to their signature and can give a balanced comparison between the two (without the new toy syndrome hype) - and I'm sure you'll get some interest in what you have to report.

This is the bit that made me smile the most. You haven't heard the SRH1840 or SRH1440, yet you already appear to know their signature and imaging ability (which you've got totally wrong by the way), and are ready to recommend the SRH940 regardless .......

I owned the SRH1840 as well - similar tonality to an HD600 in many ways - just without the mid-bass hump.  Very, very neutral.  Not an expansive stage, but magical imaging.  Far better bass quality than the SRH940, and far more comfortable.  I've seen them occasionally for as low as $350 second hand, and I would have rebought it again if I didn't have my HD600 and T1.

Anyway - I digress.  Sorry if it sounds as though I'm picking your post to pieces - I guess I am, but not trying to attack you personally.  I'd suggest taking some time to get to know your headphones first, and see if you can volume match with an spl meter (smartphone and app with standard test tones can get you to within 1dB), when making comparisons.

Enjoy the SRH940 - they are definitely euphoric sounding when you first get them.  For me personally, that wore off in a few weeks, and I got to realise they were a bit too coloured for my personal tastes.  The DT880 though - pure magic. I'd still have mine if I hadn't switched to the T1.  And that's a whole different ball game wink.gif  

I really want to try the 880DT (and theT1). I know this has been debated throughout the thread, but I haven't seen a clear consensus whether the 600 ohm surpasses the 250. I own a Lyr if that helps.
post #8077 of 8082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liu Junyuan View Post


I really want to try the 880DT (and theT1). I know this has been debated throughout the thread, but I haven't seen a clear consensus whether the 600 ohm surpasses the 250. I own a Lyr if that helps.

 

You won't likely get a clear consensus.  So far I've owned the 250 ohm Pro, 600 ohm Premium, and 250 ohm Premium.  I first had the Pro, but sold it because I read that the 600 ohm were better. But I didn't get to do a side-by-side, so I wasn't sure.  Then I did get to do an A/B between the 600 and 250 ohm Premiums.  Differences were negligible after volume matching (at least for my "cloth-ears" anyway ;) ), and you'd get more difference (IMO) with differing pad conditions, or position on your head.

 

So I sold the 600s, bought the 250s and was extremely happy with them until I got the chance to try the T1s.

 

Basically - match the impedance to your amp and your listening preference.  Unless you have an amp with high impedance on the headphone out (IE a genuine OTL tube amp), I'd stick to the 250 ohm - just for the versatility.  It worked well out of my LD MKIV (OTL tube), NFB-12, + also out of an amped DAP, or higher level DAP like the X5.

 

With your Lyr, personally I'd go 250 ohm.  Others may recommend differently.

post #8078 of 8082

Thank you very much! I will go with the 250 Ohm. Do you recommend premium over the ostensibly more bass-heavy pro? 

post #8079 of 8082

Depends on your cable preference (coiled vs straight), and whether you like tighter or loser clamp. Pros will be slightly bassier due to tighter seal - but underneath it's still the magical DT880.  For my preferences, I find the Premium more comfortable.

post #8080 of 8082

Thank you. I'm getting the 250 Premium, largely as a result of your enthusiasm for them across these boards! Thank you.

post #8081 of 8082

Hello Brokoo, regarding my comparison of the Shure SRH 940 to Beyer. DT 880 (32ohm).

I would like to start with a question: what do you mean that the treble is not accurate? The first big audio project I'll be using these for is creating hi-hat sound samples from scratch (I do sound design to create unique samples as an electronic music artist). So I'm hoping for a natural / realistic sound signature especially in the treble.

Next to answer your question - I've never heard about volume level matching before, but whenever I compare headphones I just 'ear' the volume levels and adjust until it sounds about comparable.

I had read about the likeliness of the plastic breaking so I'll just try to superglue them or use my warranty if it happens.

I guess you're right about the colored mid-range - somehow I perceived this to sound more realistic probably because this does tend to bring out more mid-detail. But yeah with some popular songs with vocals the mids did seem to sound unnatural.

I'm not a believer (yet anyway) in burn-in so I tend to judge a 'phone on the first day, yet through a highly analytical process.

You may be surprised to see that the bass frequencies at least, tend to benefit from amp-ing on the SRH 940 although only 42 ohms. I'm quite sure the volume levels were reasonably similar, yet the bass seemed so much more controlled when amped (using the same audio source loop). Perhaps this could be effected differently on a huskier amp, as I was only testing with my entry-level Magni amp which pleases it well.

I agree about the headband feeling uncomfortable but after a few hours they can feel as if disappeared.

Nothing was mentioned about the punchyness/dynamics being better on the SRH 940s - I do believe the 940s have the 880s beat in this department at least: I've used the 880s for 3 years and these definitely seem faster and punchier to me.

I am just basically putting the SRH 940 out there as a viable alternative to anybody who is tired of the sound signature of the DT 880, which, except for maybe the midrange, are very good, neutral studio monitors.

Seeing how I like a fairly flat neutral / analytical closed headphone would anyone recommend the old, huge Beyerdynamic DT-150 as a good alternative to the Shure's? THANKS VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE...

post #8082 of 8082
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecentLevi View Post
 

Hello Brokoo, regarding my comparison of the Shure SRH 940 to Beyer. DT 880 (32ohm).

I would like to start with a question: what do you mean that the treble is not accurate? The first big audio project I'll be using these for is creating hi-hat sound samples from scratch (I do sound design to create unique samples as an electronic music artist). So I'm hoping for a natural / realistic sound signature especially in the treble.

Next to answer your question - I've never heard about volume level matching before, but whenever I compare headphones I just 'ear' the volume levels and adjust until it sounds about comparable.

I had read about the likeliness of the plastic breaking so I'll just try to superglue them or use my warranty if it happens.

I guess you're right about the colored mid-range - somehow I perceived this to sound more realistic probably because this does tend to bring out more mid-detail. But yeah with some popular songs with vocals the mids did seem to sound unnatural.

I'm not a believer (yet anyway) in burn-in so I tend to judge a 'phone on the first day, yet through a highly analytical process.

You may be surprised to see that the bass frequencies at least, tend to benefit from amp-ing on the SRH 940 although only 42 ohms. I'm quite sure the volume levels were reasonably similar, yet the bass seemed so much more controlled when amped (using the same audio source loop). Perhaps this could be effected differently on a huskier amp, as I was only testing with my entry-level Magni amp which pleases it well.

I agree about the headband feeling uncomfortable but after a few hours they can feel as if disappeared.

Nothing was mentioned about the punchyness/dynamics being better on the SRH 940s - I do believe the 940s have the 880s beat in this department at least: I've used the 880s for 3 years and these definitely seem faster and punchier to me.

I am just basically putting the SRH 940 out there as a viable alternative to anybody who is tired of the sound signature of the DT 880, which, except for maybe the midrange, are very good, neutral studio monitors.

Seeing how I like a fairly flat neutral / analytical closed headphone would anyone recommend the old, huge Beyerdynamic DT-150 as a good alternative to the Shure's? THANKS VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE...

 

Hey D-L

 

Thanks for taking my critique the right way :smile:.

 

Regarding the treble - and a lot of this is going off my old notes from when I owned the SRH940 - but the main issues I had noted then was that although they were very clear, and very vivid, they were unnaturally bright, with a real peak around 9kHz.  I also noted that although they were vivid, the treble wasn't altogether smooth - a little grainy IMO.  But hey - if it works for you, go for it.  My opinion is just an opinion.

 

Re volume level matching.  I have about 3 test tones to use.  Common one I use is 1 kHz constant tone.  Queue it up in a player.  Take an SPL meter, or at a pinch, a good smartphone with a reasonable spl meter app.  Measure output.  Note volume on pot.  Plug headphone to compare repeat process - but this time rig the volume pot to match the first output reading.  Note new volume on the pot.  Repeat a few times to refine.  Now you should be able to compare the two headphones at exactly the same volume.  It eliminates the guess work.  It is also very important to do when comparing amped to unamped as most people without measuring tend to have the amped a little louder, and this is where the comments on vastly dynamic differences in bass come in.

 

Check out Innerfidelity's SRH940 graphs - http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/ShureSRH940.pdf.  When Tyll measures the impedance, whilst they have a rise around 50-250 Hz, it doesn't have a large impedance peak (it's only a shade above 50 ohms), so unless your source is extremely weak, amping is going to change the frequency response very little.  Therefore the changes you "heard" are more likely to be a result of mismatched volume.  Just something to be aware if when making comparisons.  I used to do that a lot when I first got back into the audio scene.

 

Don't worry - you're not the only one who's not a big burn in believer.  But I very much believe in "brain burn-in", or our marvelous brain's ability to compensate to sound over time.  I'll give you an example (from this post - http://www.head-fi.org/t/663773/is-burn-in-real-or-placebo#post_9435285)

Quote:
 Switching from HD600 to SR325i to HD600.

 

  • HD600 initially sounds spacious, textured, natural - incredible timbre.  No sign of veil.  Switch to 325i ......
  • 325i sounds narrow, overly bright. harsh even.  After some time with it - it sounds energetic, highs are enticing, everything sounds alive and brilliantly clear - not harsh in the slightest.  Don't notice the narrow stage as much any more.  Bass is tight and accurate and a lot of fun.  Switch back to HD600 after 2 hours ......
  • HD600 sounds slow, dull, distant.  Bass is boomy.

 

Give it a couple of hours - and then the HD600 returns back to the first bullet point again.  I know this is an extreme example - but it highlights the reality of our brain's impact on perceived sonic changes.  Have the headphones changed over the 5-6 hours listening ....... no - both my cans would be considered well broken in by now.

 

Now if our brain can change perception in a matter of hours - it's a very good idea to give headphones a reasonable amount of time before making absolute judgement calls.  It's tempting to get a new headphone, spend a couple of hours with it, then A/B it against a can you know very well - and make a call.  But often the reviews I've done hastily - before I got to know the gear well - are the ones I've later had to change as I've learnt more about the headphones real finer points.  All I'm suggesting is that you'll learn more about a headphone by getting to know it over weeks - not hours. 

 

Oh and BTW - absolutely nothing wrong with Magni.  It might be a low price, but it's a very good amp.

 

Unfortunately I'm the wrong person to talk to about closed neutral headphones - majority of my experience is with open headphones.  If you wanted an extremely neutral open headphone, the most neutral I've heard would actually be the SRH1840 ;).  Now you'll understand why I thought your original comment was quite funny.

 

Try this for searching closed > http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?search=neutral+closed+headphone.  DT250 might be one to try.  Or the venerable Sony MDR-V6.  A lot of studios use them.

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