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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 508

post #7606 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

Okay, I hear what you're talking about now, but it's not piercing.  Listen to Jacques Brel's "Dulcinea" for some real sibilance.evil_smiley.gif

The point I'm trying to make is that it depends more on the recording than the amp.  I'd like to see an FR graph of the Duet if it actually reduces sibilance.

There is a one decibel increase at 17K. I EQ this out in my player. But those recordings that I had a problem with are noticeably better. The raspy voice of Bob Seger on some songs, like Hollywood Nights, which are part of his greatest hits album where there is allot of clipping, is not bothersome to my ears anymore. Enya on her greatest hits has on one song, Amarantine, what appears to be a type of distortion when she sings to a very high note also does not bother me anymore. The most apparent is the soundstage has depth. The difference between the O2 and Duet is very noticeable to me and others. The timbre is more full-bodied and accurate in my opinion. There is no way to EQ this when using the O2 to make the music sound similar to the Duet.

Based on my experience with both DAC/amps, I think it is both how the music was mastered and the DAC but primarily the mastering of the recording that makes the difference.

I hope this makes sense. FWIW

Bob
Edited by r010159 - 6/9/14 at 6:53pm
post #7607 of 8093
Enya has a Greatest Hits???
Where on earth do you guys dredge up this stuff...

It's a wonder that Brian Eno hasn't been mentioned, but I guess there is not a lot of sibilance to Eno.

"Baby's on Fiyah, better throw her in the Watah" biggrin.gif
post #7608 of 8093

Sibilance defined: Margo Timmins, Cowboy Junkies, Trinity Sessions:Sweet Jane.

 

If anyone ever discovers a setup that cleans that up, let me know.

post #7609 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

Sibilance defined: Margo Timmins, Cowboy Junkies, Trinity Sessions:Sweet Jane.

If anyone ever discovers a setup that cleans that up, let me know.

I am not saying the sibilance is not there. But it is more manageable to my ears. It no longer sounds like distortion to me. (I wish I could explain this better)
post #7610 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it depends more on the recording than the amp.


Oh, absolutely - I agree with you 100% here!

 

(sorry if that wasn't clear from my original comment ...)

post #7611 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

Sibilance defined: Margo Timmins, Cowboy Junkies, Trinity Sessions:Sweet Jane.

If anyone ever discovers a setup that cleans that up, let me know.
I wonder how that'll sound on an HD700 running on a bright SS amp and a bright source biggrin.gif
post #7612 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

I am not saying the sibilance is not there. But it is more manageable to my ears. It no longer sounds like distortion to me. (I wish I could explain this better)
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

I am not saying the sibilance is not there. But it is more manageable to my ears. It no longer sounds like distortion to me. (I wish I could explain this better)

Looks like a nice unit... Sadly, I'm a PC. smily_headphones1.gif

Are you running it at 192kHz? Maybe something with the resampling filter, but I have no idea...
post #7613 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

Sibilance defined: Margo Timmins, Cowboy Junkies, Trinity Sessions:Sweet Jane.

If anyone ever discovers a setup that cleans that up, let me know.
Sweet Jane sounds pretty good on my setup. Darkvoice 336 > T1; I can tell where it's supposed to get sibilant. Go find "Maybe Tonight" by Nicole Atkins. TSSS City.
post #7614 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post


Looks like a nice unit... Sadly, I'm a PC. smily_headphones1.gif

Are you running it at 192kHz? Maybe something with the resampling filter, but I have no idea...

The Duet is a class 2 USB device. So for this and how it reclocks the signal, jitter is significantly reduced. Also, according to an engineer friend of mine, it probably significantly upsamples as part of its reconstruction filter for more effective filtering of the signal. He thinks it probably uses a DSP built into the chip for these purposes.

Just some ideas.

Bob

PS: I have been thinking. Perhaps the difference between DACs is the reclocking of the signal and it's reconstruction filter. My freind told me that some DACs take a FFT of the signal, thereby representing the signal in the frequency domain, as a part of the reconstruction process.

PPS: I think what I was hearing with the ODAC was possibly ringing.
Edited by r010159 - 6/10/14 at 7:48pm
post #7615 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post


The Duet is a class 2 USB device. So for this and how it reclocks the signal, jitter is significantly reduced. Also, according to an engineer friend of mine, it probably significantly upsamples as part of its reconstruction filter for more effective filtering of the signal. He thinks it probably uses a DSP built into the chip for these purposes.

Just some ideas.

Bob

PS: I have been thinking. Perhaps the difference between DACs is the reclocking of the signal and it's reconstruction filter. My freind told me that some DACs take a FFT of the signal, thereby representing the signal in the frequency domain, as a part of the reconstruction process.

PPS: I think what I was hearing with the ODAC was possibly ringing.

that is actually really interesting... I noticed though with my NFB 10ES2 my Dt 880 was not as "bright" as it once was, even though is was equally drier [when compared to my oDac and mStage SS] 

post #7616 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by evulfuson View Post
 

 

Thank you Bob. I'll go to a few local hi-fi shops and try them with whichever amps they have for demo, hopefully the problem is just my amp. Though theoretically it should be more than enough to power a 600 ohm load.

 

For what it is worth I moved from Grado 125s > 225i > HF2 and then to the DT 880 600ohm version. I found the pairing with the OTL Valhalla to be excellent. And as I am sure you have read/know, the 880s are fairly revealing of the music so if the mastering is hot and thin you are going to notice this with the 880s. On the reward side, if the mastering is excellent the 880s will reward you dearly for a very reasonable price.

post #7617 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post

Enya has a Greatest Hits???
Where on earth do you guys dredge up this stuff...

It's a wonder that Brian Eno hasn't been mentioned, but I guess there is not a lot of sibilance to Eno.

"Baby's on Fiyah, better throw her in the Watah" biggrin.gif

Ok, 'The Very Best of Enya". Close enough for horse shoes and hand grenades. LOL smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by r010159 - 6/11/14 at 12:22pm
post #7618 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post



Looks like a nice unit... Sadly, I'm a PC. smily_headphones1.gif

Are you running it at 192kHz? Maybe something with the resampling filter, but I have no idea...

 

I found out that internally the DAC reclocks and upsamples the audio signal to well over 300KHz. The more I learn about this Sabre32 DAC chip used in the Apogee Duet, the more I find it interesting. But then the results will ultimately depend on how the circuit was implemented with the DAC chip.

 

Bob

post #7619 of 8093

I remember the guys at Schiit not being big fans of upsampling in their DACs, but I wonder if they meant upsampling off of the chip itself? This makes me wonder if all chips do internal upsampling right on the chip?

post #7620 of 8093
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Defender View Post
 

I remember the guys at Schiit not being big fans of upsampling in their DACs, but I wonder if they meant upsampling off of the chip itself? This makes me wonder if all chips do internal upsampling right on the chip?

 

Yes, I would think this would be built into some DACs.as part of the reconstruction filter procedure  I do believe this is what the Duet does with it ESS Sabre32 DAC chip. This is definitely an ASIC chip with multiple modules including what I think is an internal DSP.

 

Bob

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