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post #6781 of 7851
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEleventy View Post


+1 Absolutely this. The one that sticks out the most to me now since I've gotten into hps is Norah Jones's Don't Know Why. There's this one spot that they pretty much sacrificed to the brickwall Gods and clipped it. frown.gif It's a bummer because I know it's there and I can see it coming... but it still takes me out of the song every time it hits. Shame really.

 

Wow - which mastering do you have?  Mine's the HD Tracks - and it's fine.  Dynamic Range database says most of her releases of this album are also

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=norah+jones&album=come+away+with+me

post #6782 of 7851

Classical can certainly have its share of recording flaws. True, I don't believe anything in my classical collection suffers from dynamic compression, but it's by no means universally perfect in other respects.

 

For instance, some of my organ recordings have clipping where the engineers clearly weren't prepared for the loudest levels. This doesn't surprise me, since as a class the acoustic organ is the loudest single non-electric instrument ever devised, and the larger examples have a tremendously wide dynamic range. I've heard a bit of overdrive in a few other places as well, including in a Mozart concerto for flute and harp (the flute player got overenthusiastic, it seems), and all over the place in Gulda's Well-Tempered Clavier (one knock on an otherwise exemplary set of performances, which I'm pretty sure I mentioned here). This is by no means an exhaustive list.

 

This is of course leaving off all the incidental noises (pages turning, chairs scraping, objects being dropped, conductors tapping their batons to keep the beat*, etc.) that are inevitable when you collect up lots of people in one space, and the occasional clicks and pops that creep into even digital recordings. It's amazing how much of this I never noticed until I had decent headphones, though these days I've gotten so used to this level of detail that these little flaws don't stick out as much anymore.

 

Apart from this, the overall tonal quality of the production varies widely, even among "acceptable" recordings, from fairly neutral (Decca, Dutoit/OSM, The Planets) to vibrant (DG, Boyd/COE, Brandenburg Concertos) to laid back (Telarc, Previn/RPO, The Planets) to strident and energetic (DG, Kleiber/WPO, Beethoven's 5th and 7th Symphonies) to mid-heavy (pretty much anything from Neville Marriner/ASMF), and probably some other classifications that haven't immediately come to mind.

 

Aside from the dynamic compression problem (which, given my preference for older mainstream music, doesn't come up as much for me), I couldn't say that, on average, the material in my classical collection is that much better recorded than the remainder of my library. Somewhat better on the whole, yes, but not light years ahead, and definitely not consistent.

 

*As ridiculous as this sounds, I've heard it in several different places, most notably at the end of the Dutoit/OSM recording of "Venus" from Holst's The Planets; this particular example sticks out to me because it's such a quiet, sparse section in an already subdued piece, and it always grates on me a bit.

post #6783 of 7851
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post

Sorry to hear you guys are having trouble with mainstream recordings. I listen to classical and never hear any distortion, clipping etc, and the sound is always good to excellent (except with archival material, of course). Obvously record producers believe that all pop/rock/whatever lovers listen on ipods and won't hear the difference; it's up to you to disabuse them of that notion (otherwise known as complaining). No one has to put up with an inferior product.

Just one thing: are we talking CDs or downloads? Because if the latter it could be a problem with the files rather than the recordings.
I buy CDs, mostly from Amazon. A lot of the CDs there, you get the download free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post

Wow - which mastering do you have?  Mine's the HD Tracks - and it's fine.  Dynamic Range database says most of her releases of this album are also
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=norah+jones&album=come+away+with+me
The 2002 CD release. Right around the 1:10 to 1:16, there's noticable distortion as well as 1:45 & 1:50. It's whenever she tries for that high note that the distortion comes a creeping. So perhaps it wasn't clipping but still, annoying.
post #6784 of 7851
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEleventy View Post


I buy CDs, mostly from Amazon. A lot of the CDs there, you get the download free.
The 2002 CD release. Right around the 1:10 to 1:16, there's noticable distortion as well as 1:45 & 1:50. It's whenever she tries for that high note that the distortion comes a creeping. So perhaps it wasn't clipping but still, annoying.

 

I also now purchase most of my music as CDs from Amazon. I have a downloaded Enya album where she hits high notes in one song. This is where there is some distortion. She has a large dynamic range. But everything else on the same album seems to be fine in comparison to this. I checked the audio file in Audacity and there is some clipping about where I notice this distortion.

 

I have come across a good free tool called the Techmeyer Technology Dynamic Range Meter. It can analyze a audio file and give you the dynamic range, the peak value in dbFS, and the rms value in dbFS. The dynamic range value can be from 1 to 7 (bad),  8 to 13 (transition), and 14 to 20 (good).  I use this with Audacity to determine the quality of the audio. 

 

BG


Edited by r010159 - 3/13/14 at 9:45pm
post #6785 of 7851

Without quoting your whole post, Argyris, it's a very interesting and slightly surprising read. I'm not surprised to hear that organs sometimes catch engineers out, but I have no organ recordings in my collection. And yes, I have encountered one or two places where a flute or piccolo will resonate with the mic and cause an ear-zapping overload (happens most with Shostakovich symphonies). Creaking stands and page turning are of course par for the course with classical and not to be considered technical problems. For the rest, you've set me to thinking about the actual sound quality of my collection more closely.

 

There are of course variations, and as you suggest a 'house' sound. Funny, I used to be a lot more aware of that than I am now. And it seems to me thinking over the course of the last 50 years that there used to be greater variation in sound quality than today, though perhaps my lesser quality equipment back then exaggerated it somewhat. People often rave about old analogue recordings, and indeed many were very, very good, even from the 50s. However, they were the exception, whereas today we expect and, for the most part, get a certain sound quality standard, or else we complain. I don't mean there aren't variations, but unless my ears have a built-in filter (I believe it's called age) there definitely is a greater consistency these days.

 

Or maybe my tending to stick with the same kind of music causes me to buy from the same labels and I'm not experiencing the full gamut. Right now I'm just not hearing the 'widely' part of 'varies widely'. I'll start listening more carefully.


Edited by pp312 - 3/13/14 at 10:46pm
post #6786 of 7851

for me it was Amy Winehouse.

i bought 2 "Back to Black" CD's and 1 downloads and still getting annoying noises, especialy with Rehab and You Know I'm No Good.

post #6787 of 7851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

Classical can certainly have its share of recording flaws. True, I don't believe anything in my classical collection suffers from dynamic compression, but it's by no means universally perfect in other respects.

For instance, some of my organ recordings have clipping where the engineers clearly weren't prepared for the loudest levels. This doesn't surprise me, since as a class the acoustic organ is the loudest single non-electric instrument ever devised, and the larger examples have a tremendously wide dynamic range. I've heard a bit of overdrive in a few other places as well, including in a Mozart concerto for flute and harp (the flute player got overenthusiastic, it seems), and all over the place in Gulda's Well-Tempered Clavier (one knock on an otherwise exemplary set of performances, which I'm pretty sure I mentioned here). This is by no means an exhaustive list.

This is of course leaving off all the incidental noises (pages turning, chairs scraping, objects being dropped, conductors tapping their batons to keep the beat*, etc.) that are inevitable when you collect up lots of people in one space, and the occasional clicks and pops that creep into even digital recordings. It's amazing how much of this I never noticed until I had decent headphones, though these days I've gotten so used to this level of detail that these little flaws don't stick out as much anymore.

Apart from this, the overall tonal quality of the production varies widely, even among "acceptable" recordings, from fairly neutral (Decca, Dutoit/OSM, The Planets) to vibrant (DG, Boyd/COE, Brandenburg Concertos) to laid back (Telarc, Previn/RPO, The Planets) to strident and energetic (DG, Kleiber/WPO, Beethoven's 5th and 7th Symphonies) to mid-heavy (pretty much anything from Neville Marriner/ASMF), and probably some other classifications that haven't immediately come to mind.

Aside from the dynamic compression problem (which, given my preference for older mainstream music, doesn't come up as much for me), I couldn't say that, on average, the material in my classical collection is that much better recorded than the remainder of my library. Somewhat better on the whole, yes, but not light years ahead, and definitely not consistent.

*As ridiculous as this sounds, I've heard it in several different places, most notably at the end of the Dutoit/OSM recording of "Venus" from Holst's The Planets; this particular example sticks out to me because it's such a quiet, sparse section in an already subdued piece, and it always grates on me a bit.

Try going to a live symphony sometime.
Real people in real time making real extraneous noises.
It's reality.
Get over it, guys.
post #6788 of 7851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Try going to a live symphony sometime.
Real people in real time making real extraneous noises.
 

 

I have a poison tipped umbrella to deal with people like that. They never know what hit them.

 

And since it resembles a heart attack, the Police are never involved.   :p

post #6789 of 7851

I performed for quite a few years in a choir. It's not quite the same thing as watching an orchestra play (though we did perform with a small chamber group on a few occasions), but I've been both in the audience and in the group singing, so I've experienced live music from multiple perspectives. The hall where we performed had an acoustic shell they put up behind us on the stage, which projected everything out into the space. When you were in the audience you could hear every little sound people made on stage (not to mention the other audience members). You did get used to it, but it was quite amazing being able to hear the little side conversations people were having while the director shuffled her scores. When you were on stage, you had an eerie sense of the void in front of you where the sound traveled out for dozens of feet before hitting the back wall, and of course you heard twenty score books and forty feet constantly shifting around you like one of those binaural recordings.

 

One thing I remember is that imaging pretty much didn't exist from the audience perspective. You might hear somebody turning a page or whispering, but if you didn't know who it was by voice or on sight, it was very difficult to work out even the general direction it was coming from. That's where my experience with live performance really differs from what I've heard on headphones or speakers, where I can pinpoint pretty much exactly where each sound, musical or not, originates. There's a sort of hyper detailed focus there that isn't strictly realistic, and since that applies to all the little noises the same as it does to the music itself, when I first got my DT880 the background stuff was a bit distracting. As I said before, I did eventually learn to tune it out. I imagine people who enjoy vinyl similarly learn to tune out the inevitable surface pops.

post #6790 of 7851

What are the best portable amps for ~$100 for the Beyerdynamic DT 880s? I don't really care about the Ohms.

post #6791 of 7851
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootBang View Post

What are the best portable amps for ~$100 for the Beyerdynamic DT 880s? I don't really care about the Ohms.
C&C BH2 or FiiO E12.
post #6792 of 7851

Just wondering, should I buy a tube amp + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250 Ohms), and no portable amp for outside use? Is it worth it or should I get both a tube amp and a portable amp? 

post #6793 of 7851
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootBang View Post
 

Just wondering, should I buy a tube amp + Beyerdynamic DT 880 (250 Ohms), and no portable amp for outside use? Is it worth it or should I get both a tube amp and a portable amp? 


DT880's are not really a "portable" headphone since they are open, you will hear all the noise around you and others will hear your music.

post #6794 of 7851

The DT880 would be an absolutely disastrous choice for portable / outside use. It's for home use, through and through.

post #6795 of 7851

DT880 600ohms hooked up to bifrost uber and my new vintage Pioneer SX-6000 receiver sounds incredible.  

 

Anyone using vintage receivers for DT's?  Would like to know what you're using?

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