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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 452

post #6766 of 10423

I must confess I don't understand the thrust of this conversation. To me the DT880 provides as wide an image as you could possibly want. I've heard instruments to the very far right and left, seemingly almost behind my ears. And of course there comes a point where the width ceases to be natural, unless of course one usually stands in the middle of a band or orchestra to listen.

post #6767 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

I must confess I don't understand the thrust of this conversation. To me the DT880 provides as wide an image as you could possibly want. I've heard instruments to the very far right and left, seemingly almost behind my ears. And of course there comes a point where the width ceases to be natural, unless of course one usually stands in the middle of a band or orchestra to listen.

Some people just want a more spacious soundstage than what the DT 880 offers, which is fine as it all comes down to preference and what the person thinks sounds the most natural or right to them. Listening to something like the K612 or Q701 and the DT 880 will sound a little congested in comparison, those headphones go very far right and left almost to the point where it seems it's coming directly left or right from you, especially on the Q701. Some headphones do take it a bit too far as is the case with the HD 800 and K701 to my ears.

post #6768 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
 


If that's the case you may enjoy the K612 or K702/Q701 more in the same tier because they are open and have a wider sound stage with more space to the sound than the DT 880 while staying quite close to neutral like the DT 880.

I used to have the AKG K702's which I did like but the true reason I don't have it any more because it wasn't durable enough for me, other then it was way too wide then what I wanted as well plus I did wanted a bit more bass then the bass that it had since I used it for every thing, and after the headband auto adjuster on the left side cracked a bit because off me adjusting them to sit right on my head, one day i notice there was a crack,So i move on from it.

 

 I prefer to stay with beyer's as they are more durable for my usage and then the bumps on the AKG headband made my head hurt after using them, with the dent it put in the top of my head. I should rephrase my self, I like the DT880 premium sound, I just want a open back headphones as I prefer them and I like the sound stage that comes with them.  I  wanted the airy sound that the T90 as well it's 3Dish imaging and it sound signature that it suppose to have.


Edited by genclaymore - 3/12/14 at 9:45am
post #6769 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

I must confess I don't understand the thrust of this conversation. To me the DT880 provides as wide an image as you could possibly want. I've heard instruments to the very far right and left, seemingly almost behind my ears. And of course there comes a point where the width ceases to be natural, unless of course one usually stands in the middle of a band or orchestra to listen.

Yeah ...I agree , I was listening to some of Shirley Walker's compositions last night with the 880s , excellent session ! 

post #6770 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

I must confess I don't understand the thrust of this conversation. To me the DT880 provides as wide an image as you could possibly want. I've heard instruments to the very far right and left, seemingly almost behind my ears. And of course there comes a point where the width ceases to be natural, unless of course one usually stands in the middle of a band or orchestra to listen.

Hear hear!

To my ears dt880 is ALMOST but not quite as hd800....but that "not quite" costs like 1000 dollars...

post #6771 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by genclaymore View Post

I used to have the AKG K702's which I did like but the true reason I don't have it any more because it wasn't durable enough for me, other then it was way too wide then what I wanted as well plus I did wanted a bit more bass then the bass that it had since I used it for every thing, and after the headband auto adjuster on the left side cracked a bit because off me adjusting them to sit right on my head, one day i notice there was a crack,So i move on from it.

 I prefer to stay with beyer's as they are more durable for my usage and then the bumps on the AKG headband made my head hurt after using them, with the dent it put in the top of my head. I should rephrase my self, I like the DT880 premium sound, I just want a open back headphones as I prefer them and I like the sound stage that comes with them.  I  wanted the airy sound that the T90 as well it's 3Dish imaging and it sound signature that it suppose to have.

Ah I see, so problems with the build quality, sounds like the headband adjusting mechanism is a weak point of the design and it could of also simply been bad luck. The headband bumps are not on the newer models so that concern many have has finally been adressed, the K601/612 never had the bumps to begin with. The newer models they came out with have a bit more bass as well. Beyers are definitely more substantially made. I hope the T90s work out for you, they are a different beast than the DT 880.
post #6772 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

I must confess I don't understand the thrust of this conversation. To me the DT880 provides as wide an image as you could possibly want. I've heard instruments to the very far right and left, seemingly almost behind my ears. And of course there comes a point where the width ceases to be natural, unless of course one usually stands in the middle of a band or orchestra to listen.

Some people just want a more spacious soundstage than what the DT 880 offers, which is fine as it all comes down to preference and what the person thinks sounds the most natural or right to them. Listening to something like the K612 or Q701 and the DT 880 will sound a little congested in comparison, those headphones go very far right and left almost to the point where it seems it's coming directly left or right from you, especially on the Q701. Some headphones do take it a bit too far as is the case with the HD 800 and K701 to my ears.

 

Yes, and that's what I hear on the DT880, which is why I'm not understanding the conversation. Mind you, this doesn't happen very often, and nor should it as it would be very unnatural, but the point is that the DT880 is capable of this kind of width when it's in the recording. Which makes one wonder if headphones that exhibit a more consistent width are actually doing so artificially.

post #6773 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

 

Yes, and that's what I hear on the DT880, which is why I'm not understanding the conversation. Mind you, this doesn't happen very often, and nor should it as it would be very unnatural, but the point is that the DT880 is capable of this kind of width when it's in the recording. Which makes one wonder if headphones that exhibit a more consistent width are actually doing so artificially.


The DT 880 does it to a lesser degree, it's not as prominent as it is on those headphones. I found the Q701 a bit artificial about it but not the K612. Basically what I'm saying both the Dt 880 and the AKGs will pan far right and left if the recording calls for it, it's just the AKGs pan further left or right as the soundstage is bigger overall around the head. Think of it like this, the AKGs soundstage takes place in a bigger room, the Beyers take place in a smaller room. I'm saying it's preference which sounds more natural. Which is the most natural and accurate about soundstage presentation is subjective. I personally think between the DT 880 and K612, the K612 is more natural in it's soundstage and imaging, but that's to my ears, different people will have different opinions. Also the system the headphone is hooked up to will also effect the soundstage, but on the same system, the AKGs have a bigger soundstage.


Edited by kman1211 - 3/12/14 at 4:12pm
post #6774 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifalna View Post
 
Quote:
Between substantial clipping to the point of distortion, the over compressed tracks (I can understand this to a degree), albums that have both problems (where substantial clipping through the entire track is the norm), and now distorted recordings. I am tempted to delete all tracks and albums that are bothersome to listen to for these reasons, and be more careful with my purchases in the future. The DT880s are proving there is allot of crap out there.

 

Agreed.

I often hear distortion, yet can't find the clipping in the waveform (Audacity's search), but when I look at the waveform myself, I can see the plateaus, albeit below 100%.

Which leads me to the conclusion, that sometimes distortions creep in before the final master is done.

 

Not sometimes, most of the time. ;) That's one of the first realizations I had when I got my first pair of "good headphones" (HD600)-- just how imperfect recordings are. Distortion, clipping, buzzing, crackles, its all there, in virtually every recording ever, to one extent or another.

post #6775 of 10423

I agree with pp312 that the DT880's soundstage is adequately wide such that wide recordings with a lot of positional queues sound very natural and don't sound at all closed-in while more intimate recordings are not artificially widened.

 

The K712 definitely has a wider stage but the difference isn't as large as I was lead to believe it would be based on what people said. And the problem with the wider stage is that its no deeper so it almost sounds artificial.

 

Both of these headphones, and most others, could improve in this regard by improving their depth. The soundstage on the DT880 makes things often sound like they are coming from behind you, or from directly out the left and right sides and slightly behind rather than forward. Compared to the TH-600 which I demo'ed for several days, I would say this aspect of the DT880 sounds unnatural and could be improved. The depth of the TH-600 was eye opening for me. The way the stage was stretched out in front of me rather than behind me or "through" me sounded amazing and 3D placement of noises within the stage seemed more natural and was significantly more pleasing. I'm not sure how the TH-600 is accomplishing that. I know the ear pads are angled slightly but it seemed unlikely that that would be the only difference causing the better depth. Whatever it is, I wish companies like Beyer and AKG would do the same. I have so many great open headphones with nice, wide soundstages but every one of them is pretty significantly lacking in depth. The thing is, I never even realized it until I compared them to the TH-600.


Edited by devhen - 3/12/14 at 6:45pm
post #6776 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post
 

I agree with pp312 that the DT880's soundstage is adequately wide such that wide recordings with a lot of positional queues sound very natural and don't sound at all closed-in while more intimate recordings are not artificially widened.

 

The K712 definitely has a wider stage but its no deeper. And the difference in width isn't as large as I was lead to believe it would be based on what people said. But the problem with the wider stage is that its no deeper so it almost sounds artificial.

 

Both of these headphones, and most others, could improve in this regard by improving their depth. The soundstage on the DT880 makes things often sound like they are coming from behind you, or from directly out the left and right sides and slightly behind rather than forward. Compared to the TH-600 which I demo'ed for several days, I would say this aspect of the DT880 sounds unnatural and could be improved. The depth of the TH-600 was eye opening for me. The way the stage was stretched out in front of me rather than behind me or "through" me sounded amazing and 3D placement of noises within the stage seemed more natural and was significantly more pleasing. I'm not sure how the TH-600 is accomplishing that. I know the ear pads are angled slightly but it seemed unlikely that that would be the only difference causing the better depth. Whatever it is, I wish companies like Beyer and AKG would do the same. I have so many great open headphones with nice, wide soundstages but every one of them is pretty significantly lacking in depth. The thing is, I never even realized it until I compared them to the TH-600.


That's what I found where the K6xx series and the K7xx series differ the most in, soundstage, imaging, and depth, the K6xx is just better at it than the K7xx, it's more 3D sounding. I found the K6xx series to have noticeably more depth to their sound than the K7xx series or the DT 880/990 nor does it have the artificial tinge the K7xx series has in the soundstage. The K612 could always have more depth, but it is an improvement over most the headphones I tried in it's tier in that aspect, it does give me a sense of realism I just don't get with so mant other headphones in it's tier, on good recordings it feels like it envelops me and I'm there at times and can just feel the music. The K712 probably has the narrowest and most congested(relative to other K7xx) soundstage of the K7xx series, well maybe the Annies being a bit more congested.

 

I have noticed that about the TH-600, the TH900 does it even better. Then the R10 was even better than either. It is sad when so many open-backs can't achieve that sort of depth to the soundstage which is essential to realism.


Edited by kman1211 - 3/12/14 at 7:17pm
post #6777 of 10423

Well, here's the thing. You buy a pair of headphones that sound right to you in terms of FR, balance and general listenability. Then you read in Head-Fi that your headphone lacks in soundstage width and depth compared to a certain other model. You try out the other model and it is indeed superior in those areas but otherwise isn't a patch on your current phone. So what to do? Do you sacrifice the good qualities of your current phone for the greater realism of width and depth, or persevere with it in the knowledge that it's denying you the last ounce of realism you so crave. Because even though you were perfectly happy with it before, now that you know where it falls down you feel as though it's stabbed you in the back somehow. It's not the dear friend it used to be.

 

Answer? There isn't an answer. You just shouldn't have been reading Head-Fi in the first place. :p

post #6778 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

Well, here's the thing. You buy a pair of headphones that sound right to you in terms of FR, balance and general listenability. Then you read in Head-Fi that your headphone lacks in soundstage width and depth compared to a certain other model. You try out the other model and it is indeed superior in those areas but otherwise isn't a patch on your current phone. So what to do? Do you sacrifice the good qualities of your current phone for the greater realism of width and depth, or persevere with it in the knowledge that it's denying you the last ounce of realism you so crave. Because even though you were perfectly happy with it before, now that you know where it falls down you feel as though it's stabbed you in the back somehow. It's not the dear friend it used to be.

 

Answer? There isn't an answer. You just shouldn't have been reading Head-Fi in the first place. :p

That is true. It can feel like you are missing out and losing out on realism, there is a trade-off. You can list all the differences and say what headphone A does better and what headphone B does better, but in the end people will prefer one over the other usually. It's somewhat rare to find two headphones you like almost the same. Two headphones I do like the same are the DT 880 and K612 for similar yet also different reasons, namely the Dt 880 for it's neutrality, coherency, cleanness, and smoothness and the K612 for it's neutrality, realism, detail, and tonality. I also like the DT 990 as much as the DT 880 and K612.

 

There is no answer. Admittedly once you find what you are happy with, it may be best to leave Head-fi. Which I probably should of done, but my problem is that I have a best friend who is quite the headphone nut, so I get to hear all these totl headphones that make me feel bummed out about my own precious headphones for weeks after listening to them and I can't forget those totl headphones I listened to.

post #6779 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

Not sometimes, most of the time. wink.gif That's one of the first realizations I had when I got my first pair of "good headphones" (HD600)-- just how imperfect recordings are. Distortion, clipping, buzzing, crackles, its all there, in virtually every recording ever, to one extent or another.
+1 Absolutely this. The one that sticks out the most to me now since I've gotten into hps is Norah Jones's Don't Know Why. There's this one spot that they pretty much sacrificed to the brickwall Gods and clipped it. frown.gif It's a bummer because I know it's there and I can see it coming... but it still takes me out of the song every time it hits. Shame really.
post #6780 of 10423

Sorry to hear you guys are having trouble with mainstream recordings. I listen to classical and never hear any distortion, clipping etc, and the sound is always good to excellent (except with archival material, of course). Obvously record producers believe that all pop/rock/whatever lovers listen on ipods and won't hear the difference; it's up to you to disabuse them of that notion (otherwise known as complaining). No one has to put up with an inferior product.

 

Just one thing: are we talking CDs or downloads? Because if the latter it could be a problem with the files rather than the recordings.


Edited by pp312 - 3/13/14 at 5:59pm
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