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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 434

post #6496 of 10423
Stick an E09K under your E17 and you will have lots of power for the 250's, cheapest solution.

Or an Audio-gd NFB 15.32 solution if you want to get away from the FiiO gear.
beerchug.gif
post #6497 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Just my dumb opinion, but my DT880 sound nuthin' like my Stax SRS-2170 "ear speakers"

Of course. This whole discussion is only talking about frequency response.

There are a few dozen other sonic characteristics that Stax has nailed, air & space, timbre & texture, speed & dynamic swings just to suggest a few.

Still fun to have some different personalities on my desktop though, and the 880s are keepers for me.
post #6498 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neotriple View Post
 

Hey guys,

 

I've asked this before, but it's been about a year and a half since I got my DT880's. Unfortunately, I can't actually use them as I don't really have a DAC/Amplifier and they sound awful right now without one.

 

My main uses for this headphone are for production of music straight from my computer. Is there anybody that can recommend me a DAC that would be able to power the 250 ohm version? Right now, I have the Fiio E17 and it just...does not do its job.

 

There are a variety of options that can do this - but you really want an amp for power (dac as well if your onboard sound is noisy / sub-standard).

 

No doubt O2 + ODAC will be mentioned.  From my own personal experience, I would throw the Audio-gd NFB-15 into the mix as well.

 

Also maybe the Schitt M&M (Magni & Modi) stack.

post #6499 of 10423
Hmm, I use my DT880s 250ohm with my 5.5G iMod and Fiio E17 amp and it sounds good. Also occasionally use my 880s with my laptop and E17. How does it not do its job? I'm sure you have the gain turned up to 12 right?

Sent from my XT912 using Tapatalk
post #6500 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neotriple View Post
 

Hey guys,

 

I've asked this before, but it's been about a year and a half since I got my DT880's. Unfortunately, I can't actually use them as I don't really have a DAC/Amplifier and they sound awful right now without one.

 

My main uses for this headphone are for production of music straight from my computer. Is there anybody that can recommend me a DAC that would be able to power the 250 ohm version? Right now, I have the Fiio E17 and it just...does not do its job.


I currently use an Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber as my setup. I am very satisfied and can't say anything greater about Schiit. You get way more than what you pay for. In one review a head-fi user compared this DAC to the Wadia series DAC that was over $1000. We're talking about a $500 DAC now ($529) if you include the USB option. If you can spare that much money I'd say pull the trigger. I feel like the benefits have far outweighed the cost. I've heard my headphones paired up with much more expensive gear (Cavalli Liquid Glass tube amp) and Hifiman EF6 and a Decware amp. While there is no doubt they sound better, the difference is how much better. Not that much better and for what cost? It's more like a different flavor of sound and has more tonality than my solid state. I'm looking into tube amps now and I think I may just solder my own DIY Bottlehead Crack. I've heard the price-to-performance of the Bottlehead is ridiculous. I just hope it has the kind of headroom I am looking for along with the warmth of tubes. My solid state has a ton of headroom and a good amount of play on the volume knob.


Edited by wahsmoh - 2/15/14 at 12:34am
post #6501 of 10423

Is it my imagination, or do allot of these "remastered" albums end up being too compressed and lacking in dynamics. I think I remember the originals on vinyl not sounding so "flat", particularly with the vocals. That was a long time ago. But then it may be these unforgiving headphones.

 

Must be my imagination.

 

Bob Graham

post #6502 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooko View Post
 

 

There are a variety of options that can do this - but you really want an amp for power (dac as well if your onboard sound is noisy / sub-standard).

 

No doubt O2 + ODAC will be mentioned.  From my own personal experience, I would throw the Audio-gd NFB-15 into the mix as well.

 

Also maybe the Schitt M&M (Magni & Modi) stack.

I'd say skip the Magni and got for the Schiit V&M stack, Vali and Modi

post #6503 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

Is it my imagination, or do allot of these "remastered" albums end up being too compressed and lacking in dynamics. I think I remember the originals on vinyl not sounding so "flat", particularly with the vocals. That was a long time ago. But then it may be these unforgiving headphones.

Must be my imagination.

Bob Graham

Sometimes the remasters are utterly butchered, which will be apparent on equipment that conveys dynamics well. Well mastered material will "breathe" properly, whereas overly-compressed material will sound restrained and dull. With experience, you may even hear where attacks (like on cymbals, snares, and the percussive element of piano) have been kneed down.

This has nothing to do with transfer quality or digital as a format--it's down to poor choices and/or non-fidelity priorities (e.g. increased apparent volume) made by the engineers who did the mixing. The average consumer has poor quality equipment and an untrained ear and therefore usually equates loudness with quality, since treble and bass are both perceived as louder in relation to the midrange as amplitude increases. Labels started releasing louder mixes around the mid 1990s to appeal to this assessment.

Once the average volume started creeping up industry-wide, it became an arms race. If your album was quieter than the others, consumers would be annoyed, since they would have to adjust the volume to make it match, and they might not be able to reach the maximum volume they got from the other albums. As this escalated, the only way to keep getting louder without obvious distortion was increasingly heavy dynamic compression. If you knee down the attack portion of sounds, you lower the peak amplitude of the signal closer to the average level, meaning you can then globally raise the gain and make the average, apparent amplitude higher, resulting in a louder album.

Unfortunately, this also eliminates the natural dynamics of the music. A piano note or a cymbal crash is defined as much by its decay characteristic as it is by its timbre. Imagine if a piano note were the same volume two seconds after being struck as when it was first hit. This kind of sustain is unnatural, and we've all heard pianos often enough to know what they should sound like. In the hypothetical example above, we would be looking for a distinct attack and, finding none, we would perceive the sound as dull, restrained, and probably ringy and confused. Cymbals given this treatment would sound like an undifferentiated stream of shimmery noise.

Some remasters are well done. For instance, the Peter Gabriel ones from the mid-2000s (before PG started distributing his music himself) are pretty good. Unfortunately, there are also quite a few bad ones. Case in point, the Genesis remasters from the late 2000s are appallingly awful.

Many early CD transfers have their problems as well, often being mixed far too bright.* Sadly, in some cases (e.g. certain Genesis and Kansas albums), this means that no truly excellent digital format version exists.

*My shrewd, cynical side leads me to believe they did this intentionally to make the CD format recordings sound "clearer" to average consumers, in an effort to widen the perceived difference between the CD format and its competitors and therefore entice consumers to buy the expensive new CD playing equipment and repurchase all their albums on the new format. Unfortunately, if true, this also gave digital formats a reputation for coldness and thinness among audiophiles which, even today, over 30 years later, they have never recovered from.
post #6504 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post


[snip]

Many early CD transfers have their problems as well, often being mixed far too bright.* Sadly, in some cases (e.g. certain Genesis and Kansas albums), this means that no truly excellent digital format version exists.

*My shrewd, cynical side leads me to believe they did this intentionally to make the CD format recordings sound "clearer" to average consumers, in an effort to widen the perceived difference between the CD format and its competitors and therefore entice consumers to buy the expensive new CD playing equipment and repurchase all their albums on the new format. Unfortunately, if true, this also gave digital formats a reputation for coldness and thinness among audiophiles which, even today, over 30 years later, they have never recovered from.

Yes, I remember those initial CD transfers. They must of known what they were doing to the mix. I remember them as being too bright. But there definitely was a perception of clarity. And what better way to sell the new format. If the mix was kept the same, there would be no apparent difference to the average consumer, and little reason to switch their vinyl to CDs.

Bob Graham

PS: How do I relax the clamping force of my DT880 Premiums?
Edited by r010159 - 2/15/14 at 7:55am
post #6505 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

Yes, I remember those initial CD transfers. They must of known what they were doing to the mix. I remember them as being too bright. But there definitely was a perception of clarity. And what better way to sell the new format. If the mix was kept the same, there would be no apparent difference to the average consumer, and little reason to switch their vinyl to CDs.

Bob Graham

PS: How do I relax the clamping force of my DT880 Premiums?

 

Interesting you should say that, I find the Premiums to have very little clamping force. In any case, stretching them over a stack of books and leaving them overnight works for most headphones but I haven't personally tried it with the Beyers. If you're worried about squishing the pads use something like a DVD case and place it horizontally between the metal yokes, kind of like this:

 

 

 

But you might need something longer than a DVD case for the DT880. Others might have more ideas. Good luck.

post #6506 of 10423

I don't want to go too far off-topic but I thought this was really interesting and cool:

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audiophile-workout-philips-golden-ears-training

 

The tests were actually a lot easier for me than I expected them to be. I breezed through everything until I got to the frequency bands in the golden ears section. I gave up at that point but I want to give it another try a little later. I was actually pretty happy with myself, I figured my ears were pretty much shattered by now but they performed well! :)

 

Of course, it helped that I am currently demo'ing the LCD-X. :D 

post #6507 of 10423
I have been wearing mine all day long, sometimes several hours at a time. I cannot continually keep them on, but I do not want to put them down.

Bob Graham
post #6508 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

I don't want to go too far off-topic but I thought this was really interesting and cool:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/audiophile-workout-philips-golden-ears-training

The tests were actually a lot easier for me than I expected them to be. I breezed through everything until I got to the frequency bands in the golden ears section. I gave up at that point but I want to give it another try a little later. I was actually pretty happy with myself, I figured my ears were pretty much shattered by now but they performed well! smily_headphones1.gif

Of course, it helped that I am currently demo'ing the LCD-X. biggrin.gif  
I am working through silver right now... I am going to be sick of those demo songs they use by the time this is over... If I even make it to Gold. biggrin.gif
post #6509 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by r010159 View Post

I have been wearing mine all day long, sometimes several hours at a time. I cannot continually keep them on, but I do not want to put them down.

Bob Graham

 

I hear ya there (no pun intended). They're hard to put down. If I could give my 2-years-ago self some advice (not that I think you need advice) it would be to remember to take breaks every 30 mins or an hour. I have a similarly hard time taking them off and I tend to creep up on the volume over time. By taking just a 5 min break you can get re-adjusted to the quiet and then you don't need as much volume. That should at least provide a little less ear fatigue so you can continue to listen for hours. ;) As far as physical comfort, that can be trickier and I hope you get it figured out. If your 880s are new you may need a bit more time getting used to them and breaking the ear pads in. Initially, for me, the headband would create a bit of a hot spot on the top of my head after long sessions but it rarely ever happens anymore.


Edited by devhen - 2/15/14 at 8:55am
post #6510 of 10423

Got my headphones running off of my Denon 2808 speaker taps (150 w).....with my DT880 600 ohm, some voodoo with my ALO DIY 8 wire copper braid, sound is very very close to my T1.  Bass and detail like you have never heard, smooth and detailed treble, in your face mids, wow, what a tweak!

 

Best solid state amp sitting right here in front of me all this time.....not to be overlooked for sure!


Edited by cute - 2/15/14 at 9:48am
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