or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 374

post #5596 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanx1 View Post
 

Hi everyone.

I recently purchased the 600 ohm version of the DT880.

I currently use them with a powerful A/V receiver but I feel like I might be able to get much better quality through a headphone amp and dac. I have about a $300 budget max on the amp and dac, which will be used at home. I am new to headphones and driving them, so can anyone give me a few suggestions that fall in my budget? 

Thank you.

If it's a good A/V receiver then you can invest all of your money in a good dac :)

A long time ago I drove headphones through a/v receivers and they sounded so much better just by adding a udac2.

modi/magni stacks work too....but it really depends on how good your a/v receiver is...

post #5597 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightboy140 View Post
 

If it's a good A/V receiver then you can invest all of your money in a good dac :)

A long time ago I drove headphones through a/v receivers and they sounded so much better just by adding a udac2.

modi/magni stacks work too....but it really depends on how good your a/v receiver is...

It's old but very powerful. It's an onkyo TX-SV909PRO.

I also have a B&K avr 202 but that doesn't sound as good and it isn't as powerful as the onkyo. 

post #5598 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanx1 View Post
 

It's old but very powerful. It's an onkyo TX-SV909PRO.

I also have a B&K avr 202 but that doesn't sound as good and it isn't as powerful as the onkyo. 

Comes down if you like the sound of it or not :)

And if you do just invest all of the 300 bucks in a DAC.

If you're lucky you can find a bifrost on the used forums for under 300 :D

I sold mine with usb for 290 a few months ago.

post #5599 of 10426

How much of a difference is there between a bifrost and a modi or loki?

 

Also, I'm afraid that the Vali amp won't be strong enough for the 600 ohm. Am I worrying over nothing?

post #5600 of 10426
Some quick Googling didn't seem to show the headphone output from your Onkyo TX-SV909PRO. However, knightboy's suggestion on picking up a good used DAC (Bifrost or others) is a very good one. It is within your budget, and you get to try things out to see if you are happy enough with that setup. If you find the amping inadequate by then, something like the Magni or Vali is only ~$100 away.

The Loki is probably not suitable for your purposes as it is a DSD (Direct Stream Digital) DAC.
post #5601 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanx1 View Post
 

How much of a difference is there between a bifrost and a modi or loki?

 

Also, I'm afraid that the Vali amp won't be strong enough for the 600 ohm. Am I worrying over nothing?

vali does 115mW into 600 ohms. Dt880 600 ohm edition has a sensitivity of 96db....I would say it is enough :)

post #5602 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum View Post

Some quick Googling didn't seem to show the headphone output from your Onkyo TX-SV909PRO. However, knightboy's suggestion on picking up a good used DAC (Bifrost or others) is a very good one. It is within your budget, and you get to try things out to see if you are happy enough with that setup. If you find the amping inadequate by then, something like the Magni or Vali is only ~$100 away.

The Loki is probably not suitable for your purposes as it is a DSD (Direct Stream Digital) DAC.

 

I also looked for the headphone output specs on my receiver but I couldn't find them. What I wanted to know was how much of a difference there is between a bifrost and a modi. I couldn't find too much on google about it. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightboy140 View Post
 

vali does 115mW into 600 ohms. Dt880 600 ohm edition has a sensitivity of 96db....I would say it is enough :)

Ok, I'm not really sure how mW is relative to db but I'll take your word for it :)

post #5603 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightboy140 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanx1 View Post
 

How much of a difference is there between a bifrost and a modi or loki?

 

Also, I'm afraid that the Vali amp won't be strong enough for the 600 ohm. Am I worrying over nothing?

vali does 115mW into 600 ohms. Dt880 600 ohm edition has a sensitivity of 96db....I would say it is enough :)

 

I'm going to get on my soapbox for a minute because this has been bothering me (I don't mean you in particular knightboy140 so don't get the wrong impression).

 

Whether or not a particular amp will power very high impedance headphones is not a yes or no question. There is a lot more to it than that.

 

If all of your music is highly compressed or you are using a gain normalizer then something that puts out 115mW into 600 ohms may be enough if the amp's got enough gain.

 

But if, like me, you have some old albums (original recordings) that are very much un-compressed and recorded quietly, you will have a hugely different experience than you will with a modern, compressed album. In these cases, if you want to listen to this kind of stuff at a loud volume, 115mW likely won't be enough. And of course the different gain levels that the amp offers will make a big difference.

 

I think we need to remember these things because according to most of what's been posted, my D-Zero will have no problem driving my 600 ohm DT770's but guess what, it absolutely has problems driving them. When listening to uncompressed albums or quietly recorded stuff like some of the classical and orchestral stuff that I have, the D-Zero is NOT adequate. To get enough volume for reasonably loud listening you need to use high gain and crank the volume all the way up which results in audible distortion and can still be inadequate in terms of volume. So for me, no, the D-Zero is NOT powerful enough for 600 ohm headphones. Keep this in mind. It depends on the user, their particular music collection, and their preferences as to how loud they need the headphones to be able to get.

 

For example, when I'm in the mood to rock out to the original recording of Talking Heads' Remain In Light (which sounds better than the remastered, compressed version IMO), 115mW or even 200mW into 600 ohms will likely not suffice (depending on the gain levels of that amp, among other things, of course).

 

I just think we need to keep this stuff in mind. Whether or not a particular amp is powerful enough for 600 ohm headphones is subjective and based on your music collection, your preferences, the gain settings the amp provides, and whether or not there is audible distortion from the amp when the volume is maxed out.

 

If a particular amp is enough for YOU to power YOUR music on 600 ohm headphones to the levels YOU consider adequate, that doesn't mean another person will have the same experience.

 

My Advice: If there is ANY question as to whether or not you will be able to adequately power the 600 ohm DT880's, get the 250 or 32 ohm version instead. If your response to that advice is "But isn't the 600 ohm version better than the others?" my response is: no, it is not.


Edited by devhen - 12/4/13 at 4:15pm
post #5604 of 10426
FWIW, my Oppo105's HP-out is rated at something like 17mw@600 Ohm and it drives my 880/600 louder than most can stand. Numbers....hard to listen to music with. wink.gif
post #5605 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaffer View Post

FWIW, my Oppo105's HP-out is rated at something like 17mw@600 Ohm and it drives my 880/600 louder than most can stand. Numbers....hard to listen to music with. wink.gif

 

It would be more helpful to others if you gave more information. Are you listening to modern, highly compressed music? What music player software do you use? More specifically, does it do automatic gain normalization? And what different gain levels, if any, does your Oppo105 have?

post #5606 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

It would be more helpful to others if you gave more information. Are you listening to modern, highly compressed music? What music player software do you use? More specifically, does it do automatic gain normalization? And what different gain levels, if any, does your Oppo105 have?

Look at my profile.
post #5607 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaffer View Post

Look at my profile.

 

Your profile doesn't answer any of my questions. But that's OK, I just wanted to point out that there's a lot more to it than "my amp puts out XXXmW and its loud enough."

 

BTW, when I say "compressed" I mean dynamic range compression, not lossy/lossless file compression.

post #5608 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

Your profile doesn't answer any of my questions. But that's OK, I just wanted to point out that there's a lot more to it than "my amp puts out XXXmW and its loud enough."

Actually, I pointed that out. It's not the number on the spec sheet that serves as the final determinate.
Quote:
BTW, when I say "compressed" I mean dynamic range compression, not lossy/lossless file compression.

I know what compressed means, likely better than you could possibly imagine. At the risk of sounding less than kind, the text in the profile would have answered all of your questions, if you actually understood what it said. That requires a bit more experience. No offence meant.

smily_headphones1.gif

Edit: format
Edited by Shaffer - 12/4/13 at 4:45pm
post #5609 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post
 

 

I'm going to get on my soapbox for a minute because this has been bothering me (I don't mean you in particular knightboy140 so don't get the wrong impression).

 

Whether or not a particular amp will power very high impedance headphones is not a yes or no question. There is a lot more to it than that.

 

If all of your music is highly compressed or you are using a gain normalizer then something that puts out 115mW into 600 ohms may be enough if the amp's got enough gain.

 

But if, like me, you have some old albums (original recordings) that are very much un-compressed and recorded quietly, you will have a hugely different experience than you will with a modern, compressed album. In these cases, if you want to listen to this kind of stuff at a loud volume, 115mW likely won't be enough. And of course the different gain levels that the amp offers will make a big difference.

 

I think we need to remember these things because according to most of what's been posted, my D-Zero will have no problem driving my 600 ohm DT770's but guess what, it absolutely has problems driving them. When listening to uncompressed albums or quietly recorded stuff like some of the classical and orchestral stuff that I have, the D-Zero is NOT adequate. To get enough volume for reasonably loud listening you need to use high gain and crank the volume all the way up which results in audible distortion and can still be inadequate in terms of volume. So for me, no, the D-Zero is NOT powerful enough for 600 ohm headphones. Keep this in mind. It depends on the user, their particular music collection, and their preferences as to how loud they need the headphones to be able to get.

 

For example, when I'm in the mood to rock out to the original recording of Talking Heads' Remain In Light (which sounds better than the remastered, compressed version IMO), 115mW or even 200mW into 600 ohms will likely not suffice (depending on the gain levels of that amp, among other things, of course).

 

I just think we need to keep this stuff in mind. Whether or not a particular amp is powerful enough for 600 ohm headphones is subjective and based on your music collection, your preferences, the gain settings the amp provides, and whether or not there is audible distortion from the amp when the volume is maxed out.

 

If a particular amp is enough for YOU to power YOUR music on 600 ohm headphones to the levels YOU consider adequate, that doesn't mean another person will have the same experience.

 

My Advice: If there is ANY question as to whether or not you will be able to adequately power the 600 ohm DT880's, get the 250 or 32 ohm version instead. If your response to that advice is "But isn't the 600 ohm version better than the others?" my response is: no, it is not.

Yes I know that....I was just saying for most purposes...

My personal take on this is audition gear before you buy....or buy gear you know you can return...

post #5610 of 10426
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post
 

 

I'm going to get on my soapbox for a minute because this has been bothering me (I don't mean you in particular knightboy140 so don't get the wrong impression).

 

Whether or not a particular amp will power very high impedance headphones is not a yes or no question. There is a lot more to it than that.

 

If all of your music is highly compressed or you are using a gain normalizer then something that puts out 115mW into 600 ohms may be enough if the amp's got enough gain.

 

But if, like me, you have some old albums (original recordings) that are very much un-compressed and recorded quietly, you will have a hugely different experience than you will with a modern, compressed album. In these cases, if you want to listen to this kind of stuff at a loud volume, 115mW likely won't be enough. And of course the different gain levels that the amp offers will make a big difference.

 

I think we need to remember these things because according to most of what's been posted, my D-Zero will have no problem driving my 600 ohm DT770's but guess what, it absolutely has problems driving them. When listening to uncompressed albums or quietly recorded stuff like some of the classical and orchestral stuff that I have, the D-Zero is NOT adequate. To get enough volume for reasonably loud listening you need to use high gain and crank the volume all the way up which results in audible distortion and can still be inadequate in terms of volume. So for me, no, the D-Zero is NOT powerful enough for 600 ohm headphones. Keep this in mind. It depends on the user, their particular music collection, and their preferences as to how loud they need the headphones to be able to get.

 

For example, when I'm in the mood to rock out to the original recording of Talking Heads' Remain In Light (which sounds better than the remastered, compressed version IMO), 115mW or even 200mW into 600 ohms will likely not suffice (depending on the gain levels of that amp, among other things, of course).

 

I just think we need to keep this stuff in mind. Whether or not a particular amp is powerful enough for 600 ohm headphones is subjective and based on your music collection, your preferences, the gain settings the amp provides, and whether or not there is audible distortion from the amp when the volume is maxed out.

 

If a particular amp is enough for YOU to power YOUR music on 600 ohm headphones to the levels YOU consider adequate, that doesn't mean another person will have the same experience.

 

My Advice: If there is ANY question as to whether or not you will be able to adequately power the 600 ohm DT880's, get the 250 or 32 ohm version instead. If your response to that advice is "But isn't the 600 ohm version better than the others?" my response is: no, it is not.

 

Hmmmmm......

If DT880/600 Ohm 'phones do 96 dB SPL @ 1 milliWatt, then 10 milliWatts = 106 dB and 100 milliWatts = 116 dB.

 

If you listen to music with 20 dB peaks (i.e. you need 20 dB of headroom) and you listen at an average level of 96 dB SPL, then 100 mW should be enough.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread