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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 353

post #5281 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

I lean more objectivist than subjectivist myself. Where I draw the line is the evangelist aspect, where some people just feel like they need to spread "the word" about their knowledge to everybody. At the end of the day audio is a very personal thing--if you want to understand what's happening better, then more power to you. If you just want to believe that magic pixies flutter around inside your gear, and that more expensive = more pixies = better audio, well, that's up to you, but don't ever expect me to loan you money. tongue.gif

I can sort of see the reason for the evangelist objectivist attitude--sometimes people going around and telling newcomers to the hobby that "Oh, you don't like headphone x, well buy a different amp, or a different DAC, or a different cable, and that 12 dB spike in the treble or that huge hump in the mid-bass disappears. Night and day difference!" just makes me want to go Hulk.

I feel especially bad for the people who believe that line of reasoning, spend a bunch of money, miss their return window, and then are stuck with a headphone that they fundamentally don't like and can't unload easily, and $$$ worth of unneeded equipment to go with it. I feel even worse when I watch them post "Yeah! You're right! Night and day! It's so much better...uh...", which is obviously just them trying to convince themselves their extra money made a difference. Over time the posts are less and less enthusiastic, and six months later their headphone is up in the FS section in order to finance something else.

All of this can be avoided if people had realistic expectations for how much of a difference upstream gear can make. That's made a lot more difficult with all the anecdotal accounts of massive improvements (see: more pixies). I can see how people can come to believe that the pixies will save them. Nobody wants to admit that they got a dog. They want to believe that there's some way they can salvage their situation. But at some point you have to know when to stop throwing good money after bad and just admit that you don't like something.

But this is all stuff where people pretty much need to work out for themselves where they stand. Like I said before, audio is highly individual. Where I differ from the evangelist objectivists is that I don't mind putting all this down in a post like this one, but I won't go around beating people over the head with it and trying to make them feel stupid or inferior if they don't see things my way. I post because I want to try to help people, not indoctrinate them.

While I don't necessarily disagree with your comments, there is a matter of magnitude and context to consider. Let me give an example: some months ago I was looking for a DAC. It was to be used on my desk system feeding AudioEngine A5+. I bought a Modi and a HRSII to check out. In my main system the Modi sounded rather poor, not unlike a decent cassette tape. The HRSII sounded better in every way, but it still not great. They we kinda awful,to be honest, compared to the asynchronous USB input in an Oppo105. While writing my impressions on another forum, I found both units unsatisfactory for quality audio. As an example, again, neither unit had any real bass. Not on a system geared to reproduce very small nuances on a recording.

On my desk, however, both DACs (Modi and HRSII) sounded virtually identical and I heard none of limitations that I did in my main system. This can easily be translated into this forum's context and perhaps extrapolated to include other aspects of reproduction, given the appropriate constraints.
post #5282 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

I lean more objectivist than subjectivist myself. Where I draw the line is the evangelist aspect, where some people just feel like they need to spread "the word" about their knowledge to everybody. At the end of the day audio is a very personal thing--if you want to understand what's happening better, then more power to you. If you just want to believe that magic pixies flutter around inside your gear, and that more expensive = more pixies = better audio, well, that's up to you, but don't ever expect me to loan you money. tongue.gif

I can sort of see the reason for the evangelist objectivist attitude--sometimes people going around and telling newcomers to the hobby that "Oh, you don't like headphone x, well buy a different amp, or a different DAC, or a different cable, and that 12 dB spike in the treble or that huge hump in the mid-bass disappears. Night and day difference!" just makes me want to go Hulk.

I feel especially bad for the people who believe that line of reasoning, spend a bunch of money, miss their return window, and then are stuck with a headphone that they fundamentally don't like and can't unload easily, and $$$ worth of unneeded equipment to go with it. I feel even worse when I watch them post "Yeah! You're right! Night and day! It's so much better...uh...", which is obviously just them trying to convince themselves their extra money made a difference. Over time the posts are less and less enthusiastic, and six months later their headphone is up in the FS section in order to finance something else.

All of this can be avoided if people had realistic expectations for how much of a difference upstream gear can make. That's made a lot more difficult with all the anecdotal accounts of massive improvements (see: more pixies). I can see how people can come to believe that the pixies will save them. Nobody wants to admit that they got a dog. They want to believe that there's some way they can salvage their situation. But at some point you have to know when to stop throwing good money after bad and just admit that you don't like something.

But this is all stuff where people pretty much need to work out for themselves where they stand. Like I said before, audio is highly individual. Where I differ from the evangelist objectivists is that I don't mind putting all this down in a post like this one, but I won't go around beating people over the head with it and trying to make them feel stupid or inferior if they don't see things my way. I post because I want to try to help people, not indoctrinate them.
I absolutely agree. The headphones is at least 90% of the sound that you get. If you don't like it, there's positively no way the other 10% will make you love it. I went through that with a set of HD600s. It didn't wow me. It didn't grow on me. The closest I got to being impressed was with certain albums that I played and forcing myself to wear them weeks straight. At first I thought it was the pads so I bought new pads, which weren't cheap! (50-60 for cheap foam? wtf?). I then started fiddling with my chain. First the tubes that I had. Then I bought SS stuff (M&M Schiit Stack). No cure. I just didn't like them, they weren't for me. The DT880's sound sig just hit more of my checkboxes, the HD600 didn't have a chance. The one thing that I liked more was the HD600 had a more punch to the bass but it was almost one noted with no texture. I sunk about $500-600 into a setup that I didn't like (HD600 + pads + M&M).

But, I bought all this secondhand on the FS forum and this is why I'm an advocate of buying things second hand. A lot of times, they're already "burned-in" (Whether you believe in it or not, it's still a bullet point you can dismiss when ppl tell you that you need to burn in), you lose less money because you can then resell at the same price point you bought them at, and there's no return window to worry about because all sales are final. I was able to sell everything back on the FS threads and took a $50 hit for the pads because I threw away the old set frown.gif (Could've kept the old set, mod them by filling them with newer foam and sell the new pads seperately for $40). Took that money and bought the T90s, after some research and that's where I'm at now. I love my T90s and I can listen from all my sources and amps. I have a preferred dac+amp but still, it's mainly the T90s that I love. Lesson learned. smily_headphones1.gif

TL;DR : If you don't like the cans, you never will/Buy secondhand.
post #5283 of 7811
Hi,I'm planning to get the fiio e12 to use it with dt880 600ohm .is it suitable for that task? Please help me. Thanks!
post #5284 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsamod View Post

Hi,I'm planning to get the fiio e12 to use it with dt880 600ohm .is it suitable for that task? Please help me. Thanks!

From what I read it will work just fine.

post #5285 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsamod View Post

Hi,I'm planning to get the fiio e12 to use it with dt880 600ohm .is it suitable for that task? Please help me. Thanks!

As the Dragon says,

The E12 works very well with 600 Ohm DT880s.

I have an E12 and 600 Ohm '880s, just set the gain at 16 dB when using the 600 Ohm DTs, you'll be fine!  :D

post #5286 of 7811
Thanks guys!
post #5287 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEleventy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

I lean more objectivist than subjectivist myself. Where I draw the line is the evangelist aspect, where some people just feel like they need to spread "the word" about their knowledge to everybody. At the end of the day audio is a very personal thing--if you want to understand what's happening better, then more power to you. If you just want to believe that magic pixies flutter around inside your gear, and that more expensive = more pixies = better audio, well, that's up to you, but don't ever expect me to loan you money. tongue.gif

I can sort of see the reason for the evangelist objectivist attitude--sometimes people going around and telling newcomers to the hobby that "Oh, you don't like headphone x, well buy a different amp, or a different DAC, or a different cable, and that 12 dB spike in the treble or that huge hump in the mid-bass disappears. Night and day difference!" just makes me want to go Hulk.

I feel especially bad for the people who believe that line of reasoning, spend a bunch of money, miss their return window, and then are stuck with a headphone that they fundamentally don't like and can't unload easily, and $$$ worth of unneeded equipment to go with it. I feel even worse when I watch them post "Yeah! You're right! Night and day! It's so much better...uh...", which is obviously just them trying to convince themselves their extra money made a difference. Over time the posts are less and less enthusiastic, and six months later their headphone is up in the FS section in order to finance something else.

All of this can be avoided if people had realistic expectations for how much of a difference upstream gear can make. That's made a lot more difficult with all the anecdotal accounts of massive improvements (see: more pixies). I can see how people can come to believe that the pixies will save them. Nobody wants to admit that they got a dog. They want to believe that there's some way they can salvage their situation. But at some point you have to know when to stop throwing good money after bad and just admit that you don't like something.

But this is all stuff where people pretty much need to work out for themselves where they stand. Like I said before, audio is highly individual. Where I differ from the evangelist objectivists is that I don't mind putting all this down in a post like this one, but I won't go around beating people over the head with it and trying to make them feel stupid or inferior if they don't see things my way. I post because I want to try to help people, not indoctrinate them.
I absolutely agree. The headphones is at least 90% of the sound that you get. If you don't like it, there's positively no way the other 10% will make you love it. I went through that with a set of HD600s. It didn't wow me. It didn't grow on me. The closest I got to being impressed was with certain albums that I played and forcing myself to wear them weeks straight. At first I thought it was the pads so I bought new pads, which weren't cheap! (50-60 for cheap foam? wtf?). I then started fiddling with my chain. First the tubes that I had. Then I bought SS stuff (M&M Schiit Stack). No cure. I just didn't like them, they weren't for me. The DT880's sound sig just hit more of my checkboxes, the HD600 didn't have a chance. The one thing that I liked more was the HD600 had a more punch to the bass but it was almost one noted with no texture. I sunk about $500-600 into a setup that I didn't like (HD600 + pads + M&M).

But, I bought all this secondhand on the FS forum and this is why I'm an advocate of buying things second hand. A lot of times, they're already "burned-in" (Whether you believe in it or not, it's still a bullet point you can dismiss when ppl tell you that you need to burn in), you lose less money because you can then resell at the same price point you bought them at, and there's no return window to worry about because all sales are final. I was able to sell everything back on the FS threads and took a $50 hit for the pads because I threw away the old set frown.gif (Could've kept the old set, mod them by filling them with newer foam and sell the new pads seperately for $40). Took that money and bought the T90s, after some research and that's where I'm at now. I love my T90s and I can listen from all my sources and amps. I have a preferred dac+amp but still, it's mainly the T90s that I love. Lesson learned. smily_headphones1.gif

TL;DR : If you don't like the cans, you never will/Buy secondhand.

 

 

 Wow, it's not often you find so much sense in two posts, so this is a special day for me. I agree with everything here, from the too-great expectations of amps and dacs to the buying secondhand advice. I've been saying the same things here for years, but since no one ever reads my posts I'm really glad someone else is saying them too. 

 

Incidentally, I don't normally quote whole gobs of text just to add a few words at the bottom (a deplorable practice), so that shows you how excited I am.;)

post #5288 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

 

 

 Wow, it's not often you find so much sense in two posts, so this is a special day for me. I agree with everything here, from the too-great expectations of amps and dacs to the buying secondhand advice. I've been saying the same things here for years, but since no one ever reads my posts I'm really glad someone else is saying them too.

 

Incidentally, I don't normally quote whole gobs of text just to add a few words at the bottom (a deplorable practice), so that shows you how excited I am.;)

Hehe pretty much everything that had to be said was said. I agree and that most people should get the chance to attend a Head-fi meet before they spend a good amount of money on headphones. HD600 was underwhelming for me too and pretty much anyone else who dislikes "warm" and less detailed highs or whatever Sennheiser fanboys try to claim isn't really a "veil" which is BS (it is a veil because I can't hear the details that my DT880 provides) :dt880smile:

 

I just listened to the Doobie Brothers "Listen to the Music" in 24-bit 96khz and I'm still smiling because it's like hearing it for the first time ever


Edited by wahsmoh - 11/18/13 at 8:31pm
post #5289 of 7811
Just got my iMod back from Red Wine Audio. biggrin.gif been rocking out on my iMod with my DT 880 250ohm Fiio E17 combo biggrin.gif Love these cans more and more!


5.5G iMod, clear iVue front cover, full-body Zagg Invisible Shield, clear Griffin case. Originally an 80GB iPod, converted to a CF Adaptor to 128GB SD card. Fiio E17 amp. ALO iMod LOD.


za6e8ybe.jpg

Sent from XT912 / CM10.2
post #5290 of 7811

I just ordered the DT 880 Premium 250 ohm used.  I will be using a Fiio E11 amp.  Should I use the low or high gain setting?

post #5291 of 7811

When I had the E11 and DT880 (250) some time ago I ran it on high gain myself with good results, that was out of a Ipod LOD at the time.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

 

 

 Wow, it's not often you find so much sense in two posts, so this is a special day for me. I agree with everything here, from the too-great expectations of amps and dacs to the buying secondhand advice. I've been saying the same things here for years, but since no one ever reads my posts I'm really glad someone else is saying them too. 

 

Incidentally, I don't normally quote whole gobs of text just to add a few words at the bottom (a deplorable practice), so that shows you how excited I am.;)

 

I've been reading your posts even before I joined when I was lurking (I was lurking for long time lol), among other members. Reading and experience with trying many amps and dacs have lead me to an objective point of view myself.

 

I too feel the same way as you guys with some of the recommendations for those with cans they simply do not like. (my ultimate peeve is seeing people recommending headphones without any regard to what genres a person listens to)


Edited by Saren - 11/19/13 at 2:34am
post #5292 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR650SE View Post

Just got my iMod back from Red Wine Audio. biggrin.gif been rocking out on my iMod with my DT 880 250ohm Fiio E17 combo biggrin.gif Love these cans more and more!


5.5G iMod, clear iVue front cover, full-body Zagg Invisible Shield, clear Griffin case. Originally an 80GB iPod, converted to a CF Adaptor to 128GB SD card. Fiio E17 amp. ALO iMod LOD.


za6e8ybe.jpg

Sent from XT912 / CM10.2
Not to be rude or anything but an E17... Really?

Time to up your game on the amp to match the gear, Cypher Labs, Centrance or even an ALO would be much more fitting. biggrin.gif
post #5293 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by pp312 View Post
 

 

 

 Wow, it's not often you find so much sense in two posts, so this is a special day for me. I agree with everything here, from the too-great expectations of amps and dacs to the buying secondhand advice. I've been saying the same things here for years, but since no one ever reads my posts I'm really glad someone else is saying them too. 

 

Incidentally, I don't normally quote whole gobs of text just to add a few words at the bottom (a deplorable practice), so that shows you how excited I am.;)

+1 as well, I did the same thing with my HE 400. I bought a balanced cable $140 and J$ Pads another $60. Literally spent $500 on that headphone... and it sat in my room most of the time :/ Granted there where about 2 albums that I will ONLY be able to listen with the HE 400, [Current Value has some really fast paced SUB HEAVY tracks that need the HE 400's speed an linear bass]

 

That said, out of my like 1,458 Albums... my DT 880 with a slighty more aggresive EQ works great for edm! Heck I eq'd my HE 400 to have the Dt 880 sound sig [but with that ortho linear bass] so I understand what you guys feel!

 

I am however, still dropping money into my w1000x! Which needs a warm'er solid state... as she is a picky girl. Somg songs she's mind blowing, some she's kinda meh.  And by mind blowing I mean moping the floor with the DT 880 in terms of my preferance for sound [intimate yet spacious] 

 

Speaking of headphones, listening to a UE 6000 atm... I hear ppl compare the bass of the UE 6000 to the DT 770... I might have to try the DT 770 some time my self actually! The UE 6000 has GLOBS of bass when it needs to, and modest minimal amount when it needs to :3 Still the UE 6000 does NOT scale with amps imo... ou of my Hm 801 and my Pb1 and my Beringher UAC 202 and my NFB 10ES2... very simmilar sound... mostly due to the Amp inside the headphone [it's used to regulate the Active Noise Cancellation] 

post #5294 of 7811
quote name="TrollDragon" url="/t/429371/the-beyerdynamic-dt880-appreciation-discussion-thread/5280#post_9991183"][[/quote]

Not to be rude or anything but an E17... Really?

Time to up your game on the amp to match the gear, Cypher Labs, Centrance or even an ALO would be much more fitting. biggrin.gif[/quote]

tongue.gif it was an entry level purchase. Not to expensive. Bought it used from a good guy here. But what I liked about it was the ability to bump the treble. I like a little bump in the treble. And it was enough output for the 880 250ohm. I'm definitely going to be looking into your suggestions though. I'm now hooked on this stuff.

Only other DAC I have bought before was the NuForce uDac-2 for my laptop.

What kind of improvements would I see going with a different amp?

Sent from XT912 / CM10.2
post #5295 of 7811
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR650SE View Post

quote name="TrollDragon" url="/t/429371/the-beyerdynamic-dt880-appreciation-discussion-thread/5280#post_9991183"][[/quote]

Not to be rude or anything but an E17... Really?

Time to up your game on the amp to match the gear, Cypher Labs, Centrance or even an ALO would be much more fitting. biggrin.gif[/quote]

tongue.gif it was an entry level purchase. Not to expensive. Bought it used from a good guy here. But what I liked about it was the ability to bump the treble. I like a little bump in the treble. And it was enough output for the 880 250ohm. I'm definitely going to be looking into your suggestions though. I'm now hooked on this stuff.

Only other DAC I have bought before was the NuForce uDac-2 for my laptop.

What kind of improvements would I see going with a different amp?

Sent from XT912 / CM10.2

Honestly... upgrade to dacs increase detail, upgrade to amps retain that detail. 

 

example a $100 tube and  a $1000 tube. The $1000 Should Ideally, reatin much more detail from the Dac than the $100. Although amps also color [or not color] , for example the Balanced Audio GD 10ES2, was... Colder than my Matrix M stage, it was more balanced. Meaning it allowed a more balanced sound, and a tighter sound. 

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