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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 279

post #4171 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

For a constant impedance, power is a quadratic function of current (P = I^2 * R).

 

Good answer.
post #4172 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

The loudness of the lawn mower is probably an averaged and weighted value, so it cannot directly be used as a reference when talking about amplifier power requirements, where it is the peak level that matters (so that the signal is never clipped). Dynamic - e.g. classical - music with an average SPL (even without weighting) of 80-85 dB may have peaks at or above 100 dB.

 

Nevertheless, the power requirements of headphones are indeed often overstated. The DTxx0 series drivers are also only rated as being capable of handling a maximum power of 100 mW, although they may survive short peaks above that; however, these drivers also have poor distortion performance already below 100 mW, so listening very loud is not recommended anyway, not to mention it can be harmful to hearing. Another interesting thing is that the 600 Ω drivers often have 12 V Zener diodes connected in parallel to them as a protection against high voltage peaks; this makes amplifier output voltage greater than about 12.5 V peak (or 8.84 Vrms with a sine wave, or 104 mW power) not really useful, and even possibly dangerous if the amplifier is capable of outputting high current.

 

That is great to know, sort of throws thing into perspective a bit...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

 

For higher volume, you need more power. Increasing the volume by 20 dB increases the power requirement by 100 times, and the voltage/current requirement by 10 times. However, the power needed for a given SPL also depends on the efficiency of the headphones, which can vary widely.

 

This is the meat right here... I knew is wan't as simple as doubling power etc...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syan25 View Post

I was never good at math....

Ditto!

 

 

Thanks stv014 for sheding some light and insight into this dB / Power thing, much appreciated!

beerchug.gif

post #4173 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post

 

That is great to know, sort of throws thing into perspective a bit...

 

This is the meat right here... I knew is wan't as simple as doubling power etc...

 

Ditto!

 

 

Thanks stv014 for sheding some light and insight into this dB / Power thing, much appreciated!

beerchug.gif

Totally! I love though when my schooling can help me with my hobby! Soon I'll be posting stuff like that xD 

post #4174 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

The w1000x can handle a max of 2000 mW, that being said how does that max power inpute, relate to something like the Audio GD 10.32 which can drop up to 9000+ mW into a 25ohm load, and about 5000mW into a 50 ohm load [the Ath w1000x is 32 ohms]

 

So is that Maximum power output related to voltage and volume, as in the higher the volume the more power being driven into the headphones? [Ofc I don't listen to excessively loud volume as it sounds horrible] 

 

Max power rating is basically how much you can push into the headphone before the drivers blow (as in... 'explode') on your ears.

 

The DT880 is rated at 100mW. Beyerdynamic doesn't specify whether that is "nominal" or "maximum", but I'd assume that to be "nominal" power rating. Basically, think of their "nominal" power rating as "you can listen up to this loud and not damage your headphones" and "maximum" rating as "don't go beyond this for an extended period of time or you'll be sorry".

 

It doesn't help that the DT880 has low sensitivity (96dB/mW if I recall correctly), so 100mW isn't very loud at all.

 

The W1000X, on the other hand, has high sensitivity and super high max power rating. I won't even bother to do any calculation because you can reach ear-splitting level with just about anything. They aren't hard to drive at all. And seriously, at 2000mW, your hearing would go way before you can damage the drivers on those headphones. That's why I think the W1000X is technically superior to the DT880. If for nothing but that you can pump insane volume through them without damaging the drivers.

post #4175 of 7823
This is like Algebra class all over again.. i dont understand one bit..
post #4176 of 7823

Wut, I cant believe people dont actually know this. These are the most basic of basics when it comes to sound physics, doesn't even actually require any technical knowledge, its just common sense that as you push something further to the limit, energy needed increases exponentially. I studied this when I was 15, and I didn't go to any technical high school. 


Edited by derbigpr - 8/23/13 at 10:56am
post #4177 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

 

Max power rating is basically how much you can push into the headphone before the drivers blow (as in... 'explode') on your ears.

 

The DT880 is rated at 100mW. Beyerdynamic doesn't specify whether that is "nominal" or "maximum", but I'd assume that to be "nominal" power rating. Basically, think of their "nominal" power rating as "you can listen up to this loud and not damage your headphones" and "maximum" rating as "don't go beyond this for an extended period of time or you'll be sorry".

 

It doesn't help that the DT880 has low sensitivity (96dB/mW if I recall correctly), so 100mW isn't very loud at all.

 

The W1000X, on the other hand, has high sensitivity and super high max power rating. I won't even bother to do any calculation because you can reach ear-splitting level with just about anything. They aren't hard to drive at all. And seriously, at 2000mW, your hearing would go way before you can damage the drivers on those headphones. That's why I think the W1000X is technically superior to the DT880. If for nothing but that you can pump insane volume through them without damaging the drivers.

Very true, and I do enjoy both headphones equally. Should I be concerned about hooking a Balanced Dt 880 [600 ohm] to something like an Audio GD 10.32? Which run up to 590 mW into a Balanced headphone :O 

 

Which I don't enjoy  loud music anyways 

 

but since this is the Dt 880 thread, GUYS should we be using Balanced Dt 880s at ALL :O seems kinda uhh DANGEROUS [I still will pff] 

post #4178 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

 


It doesn't help that the DT880 has low sensitivity (96dB/mW if I recall correctly), so 100mW isn't very loud at all.

 

 

 

How do you figure that?   100 mW into a DT880 600 ohm version would give you an output of about 114 db. Plenty loud enough to be very uncomfortable even for a few seconds and would cause permanent damage to your hearing after a few minutes.

post #4179 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

How do you figure that?   100 mW into a DT880 600 ohm version would give you an output of about 114 db. Plenty loud enough to be very uncomfortable even for a few seconds and would cause permanent damage to your hearing after a few minutes.

Man I'd love to see the math you guys are using to figure this out :O My algebra teacher would love it as well. Share some one :D  

post #4180 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

Very true, and I do enjoy both headphones equally. Should I be concerned about hooking a Balanced Dt 880 [600 ohm] to something like an Audio GD 10.32? Which run up to 590 mW into a Balanced headphone :O 

 

Which I don't enjoy  loud music anyways 

 

but since this is the Dt 880 thread, GUYS should we be using Balanced Dt 880s at ALL :O seems kinda uhh DANGEROUS [I still will pff] 

 

 

Well, thats like asking whether you should go out of the house and walk down the street, a car might hit you. :P

 

Personally, I would never bother balancing DT880's. Not because of the danger of blowing them, because that danger is equally present with non-balanced headphone amps as well, but because you're gonna spend more money on balancing it and buying a balanced headphone amp than you would on buying better headphones, full stop,  and a regular non-balanced amp. Don't expect miracles from balancing your headphones, most people grossly over-exaggerate it. Its can be an improvement, but a very small one, some even liked their headphones non-balanced more, and some claim they hear no difference.  Don't expect to boost up your headphones performance to an all new level by doing it.

post #4181 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

 

Well, thats like asking whether you should go out of the house and walk down the street, a car might hit you. :P

 

Personally, I would never bother balancing DT880's. Not because of the danger of blowing them, because that danger is equally present with non-balanced headphone amps as well, but because you're gonna spend more money on balancing it and buying a balanced headphone amp than you would on buying better headphones, full stop,  and a regular non-balanced amp. Don't expect miracles from balancing your headphones, most people grossly over-exaggerate it. Its can be an improvement, but a very small one, some even liked their headphones non-balanced more, and some claim they hear no difference.  Don't expect to boost up your headphones performance to an all new level by doing it.

I don't expect an ALL NEW LEVEL, just a smidge more. The headphones are already balanced. I got a used 600 ohm pair already balanced with a recable by Zombie X for $235 [with a 1/4" adapter] and honestly the Audio GD 10.32 is a logical step up for me anyways. I need a DAC that can run 2 RCA outs [or essitnally by hooked up to 3 amps] in addition I need a Dac with sPdif and USB inputs. And the Audio GD seems like the all in one device I need to hook up my many amps and sources. It just also happens to be balanced, and the cans I just got just also happen to be Dirt Cheap [and balanced] that said. I'm a fan of the super minuete details. I'm half blind, I cant smell worth a damn and I can't taste to well either [thank's allergies] so my hearing and feeling works pretty darn well! That being Said I enjoy hearing those extra little details, and it may take a few weeks or months before I notice the differance! 

 

Either way, the step up is logical due to circumstance and desires for me! 

 

Just need to justify spending the money [I mean I can easily justify it] but need to re work my budget and see where I can maybe cut back. Something will work out eventually, but at the least I have a job that NO one else seems to WANT or be able to do... so I should be ok fincially [I'm a college student and those Grants have got to buy me something cool each year :3, all that work I do for them 3.8 gpa's you know xD] 

post #4182 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

Man I'd love to see the math you guys are using to figure this out :O My algebra teacher would love it as well. Share some one :D  

 

 

 

Stv already gave you a formula. :P

post #4183 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post
[I'm a college student and those Grants have got to buy me something cool each year :3, all that work I do for them 3.8 gpa's you know xD] 

 

Lol true, what do you study if you dont mind me asking?

post #4184 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

 

 

Stv already gave you a formula. :P

I^2*R=Watts of Power, I want how he figures 114db at 100mW

Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post

 

Lol true, what do you study if you dont mind me asking?

*sigh* Computer Technology, with a Focus on Networking.

 

I want to focus on Net Working BUT also Learn and maintain C++, C and C# certifications. It's a LONG road ahead and dang it I need some EPIC music to ANALYZE, when I get sick of staring at Code, syntax and IDE programs xD. A lot of time staring at a screen with headphones about my brain lol  

 

I was studying to be a Chef, but well you know. No smell, poor tatste and food allerigies = a liking for weird food! But even with my CRAPPY senses, I could still tell a Choice from a Prime cut of meat blind folded [but that's going to mouth feel, so it used one of the good senses lol] matter o fact I'm having Top Sirloin [Select sadly] tonight. at $5 for 1.5lbs I can't complain. As SEARING and baking a steak makes it good, even if the cut of meat lacks the marbleing needed for a higher and more aggressive cooking method. So long as you carmilze those outer proteins you'll get a good tender steak with an Oven Finish! 

post #4185 of 7823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

I^2*R=Watts of Power, I want how he figures 114db at 100mW

 

You need to know the efficiency of the headphone (let's say, 94 dB/mW) for that, and then use this formula:

 

SPL = 94 + log10(100) * 10 = 114 dB

 

Alternatively, use the "Power Needed for 90 dB SPL" value from InnerFidelity, which is 0.43 mW for the DT880-600:

 

SPL = 90 + log10(100 / 0.43) * 10 = 113.67 dB

 

Finally, here is how to calculate the SPL from the 8.84 Vrms voltage calculated earlier, and InnerFidelity "Volts RMS required to reach 90 dB SPL" value (0.514 for the DT880-600):

 

SPL = 90 + log10(8.84 / 0.514) * 20 = 114.71 dB

 

Edit: fixed error and added formulas for InnerFidelity measurements


Edited by stv014 - 8/23/13 at 11:58am
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