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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 278

post #4156 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


When I use my DT880 600 Ohm with my Matrix M Stage, I set the gain to 18 dB.
With my FiiO E12, I set the gain to 16 dB.

600 Ohm DT880 need a LOT OF VOLTAGE. So your amp may not have enough gain. biggrin.gif

To sum up:

Your amp needs to be able to output enough voltage (6 or 7 or 8 Volts RMS) and needs to have high gain, approx. 16-20 dB.

Thanks Chris J!
 

I understand the output of the C3 not having enough power...

 

The MK IV dumps out 45Vpp so that is ~16Vrms plenty or power there.

 

What I am missing here is if the DT880's will produce 96dB @ 1mW per specs, why do we need 300+ mW amps to drive them properly?

So if 96dB is the sound level of a lawn mower and the volume control on the MKIV is at 10 o'clock which is no where near as loud as a lawnmover. Is the amp putting out less than 1mW at that moment? This is the part I don't quite understand, the power requirements to go from 96dB to 105dB must be huge.

 

Possibly somthing like the Veyron where 250HP will take it to 100Mph, but it requires 750HP more to take it to 250Mph? 

confused_face_2.gif

post #4157 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

 

Well OMG, I just got the money for those EPIC 600ohm RECABLED Beyer Dt 880s, I asked the seller to give me till today, and BAM today the check has arrived! [I almost cried in excitement!]

 

Congrats!

post #4158 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post

Thanks Chris J!

 
I understand the output of the C3 not having enough power...

The MK IV dumps out 45Vpp so that is ~16Vrms plenty or power there.

What I am missing here is if the DT880's will produce 96dB @ 1mW per specs, why do we need 300+ mW amps to drive them properly?
So if 96dB is the sound level of a lawn mower and the volume control on the MKIV is at 10 o'clock which is no where near as loud as a lawnmover. Is the amp putting out less than 1mW at that moment? This is the part I don't quite understand, the power requirements to go from 96dB to 105dB must be huge.

Possibly somthing like the Veyron where 250HP will take it to 100Mph, but it requires 750HP more to take it to 250Mph? 
confused_face_2.gif
I think it's that the more voltage you pump in, the better control the drivers have, letting them fire off more often and completely. Some devices might pump out enough every cycle but it might be a long wait un between. This is just from my basic understanding of electricity tho so don't quote me on it. smily_headphones1.gif
post #4159 of 10430
Difference between 96 db and 106 db is 10* current needed.
Edited by asdafaasda - 8/23/13 at 7:15am
post #4160 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEleventy View Post


I think it's that the more voltage you pump in, the better control the drivers have, letting them fire off more often and completely. Some devices might pump out enough every cycle but it might be a long wait un between. This is just from my basic understanding of electricity tho so don't quote me on it. smily_headphones1.gif

maybe so but how do Amps play in? What you mention about "the wait" it might be that increased amps will decrease the wait between the "fire offs" 

post #4161 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdafaasda View Post

Difference between 96 db and 106 db is 10* current needed.

 

That is not correct, it is 10 times more power, and 3.1623 times more voltage and current.

post #4162 of 10430

Hm, so current isn't power?

Would the C421, with 28mw at 600 ohms be able to drive the DT 880 600 ohms which has 96 db/1mw sensitivity?

Edit: I mean, it should be able to push 110 db...


Edited by asdafaasda - 8/23/13 at 7:47am
post #4163 of 10430
Quote:

Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post

 

So if 96dB is the sound level of a lawn mower and the volume control on the MKIV is at 10 o'clock which is no where near as loud as a lawnmover.

 

The loudness of the lawn mower is probably an averaged and weighted value, so it cannot directly be used as a reference when talking about amplifier power requirements, where it is the peak level that matters (so that the signal is never clipped). Dynamic - e.g. classical - music with an average SPL (even without weighting) of 80-85 dB may have peaks at or above 100 dB.

 

Nevertheless, the power requirements of headphones are indeed often overstated. The DTxx0 series drivers are also only rated as being capable of handling a maximum power of 100 mW, although they may survive short peaks above that; however, these drivers also have poor distortion performance already below 100 mW, so listening very loud is not recommended anyway, not to mention it can be harmful to hearing. Another interesting thing is that the 600 Ω drivers often have 12 V Zener diodes connected in parallel to them as a protection against high voltage peaks; this makes amplifier output voltage greater than about 12.5 V peak (or 8.84 Vrms with a sine wave, or 104 mW power) not really useful, and even possibly dangerous if the amplifier is capable of outputting high current.

post #4164 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdafaasda View Post

Hm, so current isn't power?

 

For a constant impedance, power is a quadratic function of current (P = I^2 * R).

post #4165 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEleventy View Post

I think it's that the more voltage you pump in, the better control the drivers have, letting them fire off more often and completely. Some devices might pump out enough every cycle but it might be a long wait un between. This is just from my basic understanding of electricity tho so don't quote me on it. smily_headphones1.gif

 

Higher maximum power does not give better control over the drivers, but it allows for higher peak SPL without clipping distortion. It is low output impedance (or generally the amplifier's ability to behave as much like an ideal voltage source with the transducer load as possible) that improves control over the drivers.

post #4166 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

For a constant impedance, power is a quadratic function of current (P = I^2 * R).

Omg dude, can you send me that in full quadratic form? I'm taking alegrba for the EXACT reason of being able to understand these Audio Related Algebraic Formulas :D 

 

In addition 

 

Can some one help me understand what Max Power is? 

 

The w1000x can handle a max of 2000 mW, that being said how does that max power inpute, relate to something like the Audio GD 10.32 which can drop up to 9000+ mW into a 25ohm load, and about 5000mW into a 50 ohm load [the Ath w1000x is 32 ohms]

 

So is that Maximum power output related to voltage and volume, as in the higher the volume the more power being driven into the headphones? [Ofc I don't listen to excessively loud volume as it sounds horrible] 

 

Looking at another article on Head Fi, So as I though, total power input is related to Volume, but it is more than that though.

 

Why does a headphone like the He-6 require so much power, is power a term related to a function between Amps and Volts? 


Edited by Mshenay - 8/23/13 at 8:20am
post #4167 of 10430
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

 

The w1000x can handle a max of 2000 mW, that being said how does that max power inpute, relate to something like the Audio GD 10.32 which can drop up to 9000+ mW into a 25ohm load, and about 5000mW into a 50 ohm load [the Ath w1000x is 32 ohms]

 

It will probably be something between 5000 and 9000 mW, but closer to 9000 mW. If the amplifier would output a constant maximum voltage, then the power would be inversely proportional to the load impedance (P = V^2 / R), however, the maximum voltage normally decreases somewhat into low impedance loads. That is why the maximum power into 25 Ω is less than twice as high as it is into 50 Ω.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

 

So is that Maximum power output related to voltage and volume, as in the higher the volume the more power being driven into the headphones? [Ofc I don't listen to excessively loud volume as it sounds horrible] 

 

For higher volume, you need more power. Increasing the volume by 20 dB increases the power requirement by 100 times, and the voltage/current requirement by 10 times. However, the power needed for a given SPL also depends on the efficiency of the headphones, which can vary widely.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

 

Why does a headphone like the He-6 require so much power, is power a term related to a function between Amps and Vol

 

The HE-6 has very inefficient drivers, that is, only a small percentage of the input power is actually used to produce sound, and the rest is likely just dissipated as heat.

post #4168 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

 

The HE-6 has very inefficient drivers, that is, only a small percentage of the input power is actually used to produce sound, and the rest is likely just dissipated as heat.

Good Grief, well that's good to know. So then as you increase volume, the power need grows expontially, or just very quickly. 

post #4169 of 10430
I was never good at math....
post #4170 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syan25 View Post

I was never good at math....

Well Math is only for those of us who REALLY get into this hooby, xD I'll be building who know's what soon enough 

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