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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 233

post #3481 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

With all of those amps the 250 ohm will sound just as good as the 600 ohm. We've been over this many, many times over the last few pages. The 600 ohm version works better with high output impedance amplifiers like OTL tube amps. Otherwise they are essentially identical in sound though some say the 600 ohm has very slightly smoother treble (others say the opposite, that the 250 ohm has slightly smoother treble, so it could very well just be driver variance). The only reason for you to go to the trouble and expense of selling your 250 ohm and getting the 600 ohm is if you plan on using something like an OTL tube amp. Even then you might find that the difference is negligible. The only other difference is the clamping force which is slightly tighter on the 250 ohm Pro. Oh, and the 250 ohm Pro comes with a coiled cable while the 600 ohm Premium would have a straight cable.

 

TL;DR: Forget about it. Your 250 ohm Pro will sound just as good as the 600 ohm version would. Its not worth the trouble to chase after the 600 ohm superiority myth if you've already got the 250 ohm Pro.

 

Thank you, i much needed peace of mind, but now considering i have onboard audio. Should i get a creatice Zxr or the M&M combo? I do mostly gaming and light music (no audiophile over here)

 

Also i prefer higher clamping force, i like that my headphones hug me. Coiled cable is fun, not pratical


Edited by douglatins - 6/5/13 at 2:07pm
post #3482 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by douglatins View Post

 

Thank you, i much needed peace of mind, but now considering i have onboard audio. Should i get a creatice Zxr or the M&M combo? I do mostly gaming and light music (no audiophile over here)

 

Either would be fine and capable of powering your 880s since the Sound Blaster has a decent built-in headphone amp. The Sound Blaster has the benefit of supporting virtual surround sound features in games, though my games have always sounded perfectly fine without them. The M&M might potentially sound slightly better but I don't have experience with it. Good luck.

post #3483 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

Either would be fine and capable of powering your 880s since the Sound Blaster has a decent built-in headphone amp. The Sound Blaster has the benefit of supporting virtual surround sound features in games, though my games have always sounded perfectly fine without them. The M&M might potentially sound slightly better but I don't have experience with it. Good luck.

 

Newegg have reviews that say that the card stops working quite soon, so there is that, Schiit hardware seems tough

But if i get the MM combo i heard i would lose all gaming oriented options like audio localization etc, is that correct?

 

Also i dont really get the brand name (some weird pun from marketing?)


Edited by douglatins - 6/5/13 at 2:18pm
post #3484 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by douglatins View Post

 

Newegg have reviews that say that the card stops working quite soon, so there is that, Schiit hardware seems tough

But if i get the MM combo i heard i would lose all gaming oriented options like audio localization etc, is that correct?

 

Also i dont really get the brand name (some weird pun from marketing?)

 

Yeah the brand name's basically a joke. As in "its the Schiit!".

 

No, you absolutely will not lose all audio localization in games. Some games support hardware surround sound features that *improve* the 3D placement of sounds but virtually all games already have 3D audio placement built-in. I play a lot of games, mostly shooters like Counter-Strike and Battlefield, and I can always tell what direction noises are coming from and how far away they are. That's without any sound card or hardware surround sound features. So personally I don't think its much of a concern. You'd have to try out said surround sound features to decide for yourself but you shouldn't assume that audio localization in games will be non-existant with the M&M because that's not the case. A good set of headphones and a good amp will make the audio experience in games an awesome one, regardless of whether they support hardware surround sound features.


Edited by devhen - 6/5/13 at 2:36pm
post #3485 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

 

Yeah the brand name's basically a joke. As in "its the Schiit!".

 

No, you absolutely will not lose all audio localization in games. Some games support hardware surround sound features that *improve* the 3D placement of sounds but virtually all games already have 3D audio placement built-in. I play a lot of games, mostly shooters like Counter-Strike and Battlefield, and I can always tell what direction noises are coming from and how far away they are. That's without any sound card or hardware surround sound features. So personally I don't think its much of a concern. You'd have to try out said surround sound features to decide for yourself but you shouldn't assume that audio localization in games will be non-existant with the M&M because that's not the case. A good set of headphones and a good amp will make the audio experience in games an awesome one, regardless of whether they support hardware surround sound features.

 

Then i should get the combo i guess, i fear that the Zxr might have issues with drivers or stop working altogether

post #3486 of 10430

I read somewhere that these are actually less analytical then the 280 Pros! I've always wondered what it would be like to listen to a song I find dull on my 280s and then hear it on something else and then think it was done well.

 

Edit: I went and asked a magic 8 ball if I will love these, and it said I can count on it. The mysterious prediction skills of the magic 8 ball strikes again!


Edited by daleb - 6/5/13 at 7:57pm
post #3487 of 10430
My 880-250's arrived today. Nice. Minimal time listening but very pleased. Aune T1 ordered. Looking forward to pairing them up and enjoying the wonder of music.
post #3488 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by daleb View Post

I read somewhere that these are actually less analytical then the 280 Pros! I've always wondered what it would be like to listen to a song I find dull on my 280s and then hear it on something else and then think it was done well.

 

Edit: I went and asked a magic 8 ball if I will love these, and it said I can count on it. The mysterious prediction skills of the magic 8 ball strikes again!

 

I haven't heard the 280 Pro (unless you count for about three seconds literally ten years ago), so I can't comment on it specifically, but I'd be very surprised if you came to the conclusion that the DT880 was less analytical. It's known for its bright-leaning neutrality and detail retrieval. It's can be a bit merciless to really poor recordings, like any good accuracy-focused headphone should, but it stops short of being insufferably analytic, IMO. It manages to pick apart a mix and offer a great picture of what's going on, flaws and all, but it doesn't beat you over the head with the information. You can set that stuff aside and still enjoy the music, which is one of my favorite things about the DT880.

post #3489 of 10430

It always amuses me listening to things through my laptop speakers (the only speakers I've been able to listen to at all, ever), and I'll see that I don't notice any flaws with the music. Its so much harder to critique on them because they cover up all the flaws and try to make everything pleasant sounding.

 

On the other hand, if there is a flaw in the recording, I will notice it heavily with my 280s. Strangely, I'm not bothered by bitrate differences too much with them, though. I have everything from 128 to lossless, and it never really bothers me with the difference (though it is noticeable).

 

Also, this "experienced audiophile" your signature speaks of sounds like a glass half empty kind of guy :P


Edited by daleb - 6/5/13 at 8:40pm
post #3490 of 10430

Naw, he's just a guy who's been on Head-Fi long enough to hear some rather fanciful claims. wink.gif

 

I'm happy to report that while the DT880 will most definitely reveal the difference between low bitrate and higher bitrate encoding, I've never felt that music was unlistenable through them because of it, so if your experience ends up like mine you won't have to worry about that.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, tonally at least, the DT880 probably isn't going to be a radical departure from the HD280. Again, I haven't heard the Senns extensively, so you'll be in a much better position to compare than me, but both of them are shooting for neutrality, so they're going to be closer than if we were comparing the Sennheiser and, say, a Grado or one of the newer Denons, which have obvious coloration.

 

The biggest difference is going to come in the presentation. When compared to something like my SRH440 (another neutral, closed back headphone), the soundstage on the DT880 is more well rounded. Where the Shures spread everything in a line left to right, the DT880 has a bit more forward depth. It also manages to layer things better, making it more obvious what's supposed to be in the foreground and background. It even manages to sound taller, as though the ceiling is higher.

post #3491 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

Naw, he's just a guy who's been on Head-Fi long enough to hear some rather fanciful claims. wink.gif

 

I'm happy to report that while the DT880 will most definitely reveal the difference between low bitrate and higher bitrate encoding, I've never felt that music was unlistenable through them because of it, so if your experience ends up like mine you won't have to worry about that.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, tonally at least, the DT880 probably isn't going to be a radical departure from the HD280. Again, I haven't heard the Senns extensively, so you'll be in a much better position to compare than me, but both of them are shooting for neutrality, so they're going to be closer than if we were comparing the Sennheiser and, say, a Grado or one of the newer Denons, which have obvious coloration.

 

The biggest difference is going to come in the presentation. When compared to something like my SRH440 (another neutral, closed back headphone), the soundstage on the DT880 is more well rounded. Where the Shures spread everything in a line left to right, the DT880 has a bit more forward depth. It also manages to layer things better, making it more obvious what's supposed to be in the foreground and background. It even manages to sound taller, as though the ceiling is higher.

That's exactly why I chose the DT880s over the Q701s. I'm not really leaving my preferred sound signature I believe, its just a large improvement over the ones I have now. The only thing is the 280s are slightly off from neutral (on purpose) to aim for DJing. There is a large sub-bass boost, which allows the kick to shine through, and a huge boost between 8-10 khz, which makes finding the hi-hat rhythms really easy. It really makes these only suited for electronic music, because the low mids, upper mids, and lower treble lack any sort of power. Kind of like how I heard someone describe the k701s (which I highly doubt is true), it really doesn't feel like it knows what it wants to do with the music, and ends up not doing much at all. I still manage to enjoy these immensely, though, especially after EQ. I have a very strange EQ that makes these headphones much more forward in the upper mids and treble, and actually moving back the lower mids (these have pretty muddy lower mids), making them much more enjoyable for vocal based music. I actually like it more for vocals this way then for electronic music.

 

The 280s soundstage "line" barely even extends from ear to ear, really. Even with the Barbershop, it doesn't get outside of the head. It seems to play even less sound above 10 khz then most closed headphones.

 

This is probably the most critical I will ever be of the 280s, because I absolutely adore them. It's flaws are always made up for by how invested I can get into the music  with them, compared to every other headphone I've had the chance to listen to or own. The most expensive headphone I've listened to besides these is the M50s, which I've spent about 10 hours with I'd say. I somehow ended up not enjoying them all too much, which is pretty unexpected. I think the 280s might lose their immersion crown for me pretty soon, though. biggrin.gif


Edited by daleb - 6/5/13 at 9:49pm
post #3492 of 10430

So the HD280 does have that sub bass bump. I've seen that feature in a few frequency plots for it and wondered if it was some sort of measuring aberration, since I've never seen anything quite like that in any other headphone.

 

I can assure you the DT880 has no such sub bass boost. It does have good bass extension, though--you just have to feed it the right material. I didn't really unearth it until I listened to some well recorded organ music, though some electronic stuff offers hints at its presence. It seems to come out of nowhere. It's not loud or overpowering, per se--it's just there, in exactly the right proportion, IMO, to fit in with the mix. This is exactly what extension should be.

 

If you're EQ'ing in more upper mids and treble, I think the DT880 should be right up your street. There is a peak between 5 and 6 kHz that is responsible for a lot of the claims of brightness in this headphone*, but also contributes to its reputation for clarity. It can result in hyped up sibilance in poor recordings, but otherwise it's fairly benign.

 

I've tried out the Barbershop video before and found it quite eerie. It's difficult to describe how far outside the head the sounds seem to be with the DT880. I wouldn't say it's entirely convincing, but it's a lot closer than I've gotten with anything else I've tried. At some point you run into the limitations of the binaural format itself, which would only sound "correct" with a perfectly flat signal (pretty much impossible to achieve with headphones) and if your head and ears were exactly the same size and shape as those of the dummy head used to make the recording. I noticed that the sense of distance seemed to diminish for sounds coming from directly ahead and behind. Of course this might well vary from person to person based on the considerations above.

 

*Not the stuff around 8kHz, incidentally, which appears to be ear canal resonance and which varies in frequency center and magnitude for each person but which will always be present for every headphone worn. My own ear canal resonance is 6dB at 7660 Hz, and I have a parametric EQ curve set up to compensate. Most of the dummy heads I've seen measurements from have resonance at around 8-9 kHz.

post #3493 of 10430

Using sine wave tests on my 280s, my ears don't have a resonance until right after 10 khz. I don't think that's how ears are supposed to work XD So far, that means headphones are considerably less bright to me then to most people. I might end up considering the DT880s dark, like I do with seemingly every headphone I've ever tried. Then again, the DT880s don't die above 10 khz like the 280s. The fact that the 280s with their lack of sound up there still manages to hurt my hearing means a ton!

 

Edit: 440th post here, halfway to the best number tongue.gif


Edited by daleb - 6/6/13 at 11:27am
post #3494 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post

Then you have to do a Dual Entry Conversion... biggrin.gif

 

TrollDragon,

Did the acoustics changed at all after doing this mod. I would imagine that the space taken by the connectors would change it.

post #3495 of 10430
Quote:
Originally Posted by luiscasgt View Post

 

TrollDragon,

Did the acoustics changed at all after doing this mod. I would imagine that the space taken by the connectors would change it.

Hey luiscasgt!

 

On the entry side of the headphones in singlewire mode there is quite a bit of wire behind the cup, the cable itself and then another cable that runs across to the other driver.

 

Basically all I did was add a 1/2" post from the cup bottom to the start of the driver, so yes that probably altered sound a minute bit, the whole back of the cup in the 880's is a white fibre fill disk 1/8" thick with a hole in the middle the size of the driver that is open to the outside grill. Under the disk is a fibre fill circle taking up the rest of the cup with the same hole in the center.

 

I didn't notice a change in sound after the conversion, but then I wasn't really looking for any specific differences.

 

If you wanted to see any difference without actually doing the mod you could take apart the right cup, put a piece of plastic tube 1/2" in diameter and closed at both ends inside at the bottom, keeping the height just below the pins on the driver itself. Snap the cup back together and try it out.

 

*Be Very Carefull of the Driver Tabs, They will pull out of thier mounts VERY easily!* after you have the pad off and the snap ring removed, tilt the cup forward and let the driver rest against your hand. Then slowly lower the driver away from the cup. If any wires pull enough on the tabs they will come out and break the voice coil wire. If you are lucky like I was, you can reattach the wire to the center post. If you can't it $60 for a driver from beyerdynamic.

 

There are a few around here with Tiny xlr moded beyerdynamic, I believe that MalVeauX has a DT770 600Ω with one. He would probably be quite a bit more detailed than I could about the differences the socket makes. Send him a PM, he's a great guy.

Here are his pictures...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/643648/beyer-dt770-pro-80-detachable-cable-mod#post_9013531

 

And liquidzoo was modding a pair of DT770 's the same way but he broke a voice coil wire, I am not sure if he has been able to fix it yet. He would have an opinion of the mod's sound as well.

His thread is here  http://www.head-fi.org/t/661501/recable-dt770s

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