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The Beyerdynamic DT880 Discussion thread - Page 105

post #1561 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post


I would consider the T1 more "U" shaped out of the 2 phones, the T1 being more theatrical in presentation. Slightly more bass presence, a slight warmth in the mid-range with an unfortunate dip to the highs... actually exactly like this:

 

graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2751&graphID[]=2033

 

I think a lot of people are blinded by the price, if a superseding headphone has a bigger price tag it must be better. Unfortunately it's just a cognitive illusion, I do however like the spoken idea of the T1.

 

Ta-da!! I totally agree with you here. How can I miss this post?
 

 

post #1562 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


No, the DT880s have a very metallic like treble that MANY have reported as really annoying, flabby bass and that in turn makes the mids sound well...recessed. The T1's treble is far from metallic and the bass is almost as tight as the HD800s for dynamic headphones. Two things the DT880s only wish they could do. Since you brought up price, it goes both ways...those who don't want to spend the extra $ can say what they want to themselves, but they are missing out. I barely "liked" the DT880s (250 and 600s) when I owned them, but the T1s are a different beast entirely and one of the very best headphones I've heard/owned.

 

 

 


So you're saying the people who like the 880 more are just poor?

I had the money to buy the T1, but I went with the 880 because I liked it more.  My budget was essentially unlimited, and I chose the DT880 anyway, even over all the 1k headphones.

Why?

  1. Good response across the spectrum
  2. Open
  3. Ruler-flat phase (no other non-planar headphone can claim this)
  4. Great square-wave reproduction
  5. Well-tuned and dampened driver
  6. Light-weight
  7. Not terribly low-efficiency
  8. Good synergy with most amps.

The first essentially cuts my choices down to the DT-880 LCD-2, LCD-3, HD-800, T1, HE-6, HE-500, HE-4, and a few others.

The second rules everything but essentially those on the list.

The third rules out everything but the LCD-2, LCD-3, and DT-880 (All of Hifiman's headphones have inverted phase)

The fourth changes nothing.

The fifth changes nothing, but WOULD rule out the T1 if it wasn't already ruled out because the T1's driver is really floppy.

The sixth rules out the LCD-2 and LCD-3 (I have to wear them 18 hours a day because of my job)

What does that leave?

 

And that's why I made my choice.


Edited by PelPix - 12/20/11 at 6:37pm
post #1563 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post


So you're saying the people who like the 880 more are just poor?

I had the money to buy the T1, but I went with the 880 because I liked it more.

 


No...please read my post in its entirety as purely a response to the one that was quoted. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 


Since you brought up price, it goes both ways...

 

 


Edited by MacedonianHero - 12/20/11 at 6:20pm
post #1564 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

No, the DT880s have a very metallic like treble that MANY have reported as really annoying, flabby bass and that in turn makes the mids sound well...recessed. The T1's treble is far from metallic and the bass is almost as tight as the HD800s for dynamic headphones. Two things the DT880s only wish they could do. Since you brought up price, it goes both ways...those who don't want to spend the extra $ can say what they want to themselves, but they are missing out. I barely "liked" the DT880s (250 and 600s) when I owned them, but the T1s are a different beast entirely and one of the very best headphones I've heard/owned.

 

Perhaps I should of left my post at my opinion to save from such an unfounded retaliation post. I would never consider the DT880 to be metallic sounding, I would reserve that for aggressive, harder hitting phones like Grado's or possibly the Sony SA5000 and HD800. I do enjoy a good transient response and find the DT880s to be spot on for me, the T1s a little more rounded, perhaps similar to the HD650 in that regard. So if indeed you consider the DT880s to be hard compared to the T1, I would consider the T1s to be rounded. It might even be a case that the T1 is much more forgiving with music, with their theatrical sound and softer treble they may well suit more people.

 

Flabby bass? are we talking about the same headphone here? One of the reasons I didn't like the T1 was because I found the bass to be a little louder, say +2dB, perhaps closer to the DT990 than the 880. I would not consider a T1 to be anything like a HD800, in fact I would go as far to say the bass of the DT880/600 is much closer to the HD800 than the T1.

 

Again, exactly like this.

 

graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2751&graphID[]=2033&graphID[]=863

 

I'm not sure what you're hearing and/or what you've convinced yourself of, but simply put the T1s are not everyones cup of tea, more of a side step than an automatic upgrade.

post #1565 of 10423

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

 

Perhaps I should of left my post at my opinion to save from such an unfounded retaliation post. I would never consider the DT880 to be metallic sounding, I would reserve that for aggressive, harder hitting phones like Grado's or possibly the Sony SA5000 and HD800. I do enjoy a good transient response and find the DT880s to be spot on for me, the T1s a little more rounded, perhaps similar to the HD650 in that regard. So if indeed you consider the DT880s to be hard compared to the T1, I would consider the T1s to be rounded. It might even be a case that the T1 is much more forgiving with music, with their theatrical sound and softer treble they may well suit more people.

 

Flabby bass? are we talking about the same headphone here? One of the reasons I didn't like the T1 was because I found the bass to be a little louder, say +2dB, perhaps closer to the DT990 than the 880. I would not consider a T1 to be anything like a HD800, in fact I would go as far to say the bass of the DT880/600 is much closer to the HD800 than the T1.

 

Again, exactly like this.

 

graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2751&graphID[]=2033&graphID[]=863

 

I'm not sure what you're hearing and/or what you've convinced yourself of, but simply put the T1s are not everyones cup of tea, more of a side step than an automatic upgrade.


I've actually owned both the DT880s and T1s (still have the latter) and absolutely, the bass was flabbier, treble quite metallic-like on the DT880s. Grado's treble is more piercing than metallic-like (which again, many have complained about). No headphone is everyone's cup of tea. But as I mentioned....looks like you've convinced yourself otherwise.

 

Louder bass does not equal less controlled...less controlled bass = less controlled bass. There's a difference. Since you mentioned the HD800s, I have them here and have A-B them directly over the past 2 years and the DT880s aren't in the same league as the T1s or HD800s. Heck, I preferred the HD650s and HD600s over them.

 

Have a look at the final peak on the DT880s...I'd reckon that's were a majority of the metallic treble comes from...neither the T1s or HD800s suffer from this.

 

EDIT: From Skylab's T1 review (and he was a rather large DT880 fan; though he no longer owns them);

 

"The T1 is, undoubtedly, a phenomenal headphone, and an enormous step forward from the DT880 (or its siblings). In terms of looks and build, it's basically like a much, much better build 880. Same basic size and shape on the exterior, but better materials and a higher level of workmanship. But sonically, it is on another level altogether."

 

And I agree with him completely. YMMV.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 12/20/11 at 6:30pm
post #1566 of 10423

I can't agree with him.  The T1's driver is just way too floppy compared to the D880's.

post #1567 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post

I can't agree with him.  The T1's driver is just way too floppy compared to the D880's.


LoL...then it's just the two of you who would think that. And you certainly are entitled to think that. BTW, have you heard the T1s (and if so, on what rig)?

 

post #1568 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

I've actually owned both the DT880s and T1s (still have the latter) and absolutely, the bass was flabbier, treble quite metallic-like on the DT880s.

 

Your synonyms set off my bullsh*t detector, before I continue I must ask; are you a cable believer?

post #1569 of 10423

I updated my post up there with my exact reasoning behind buying the DT880's

Just the two of us that believe what?  That the T1's driver is floppy?

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1.pdf

The measurements clearly show it.

 

I'm not arguing that the T1 doesn't sound better; what I'm saying is that, peak for peak, the DT880 reproduces the sound better from the electrical signal than the T1 does.  Those are two very different things.


Edited by PelPix - 12/20/11 at 6:46pm
post #1570 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post

I updated my post up there with my exact reasoning behind buying the DT880's

Just the two of us that believe what?  That the T1's driver is floppy?

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1.pdf

The measurements clearly show it.


I believe you really don't know what you've referred to in terms of "flabbier"...LoL. There is a second T1 graph there that is quite different....then there's the whole measurement system issue and variability associated with it. Not to mention, there are no DT880s there to compare to for crying out loud.

 

Again, have you heard the T1s?

 

post #1571 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

 

Your synonyms set off my bullsh*t detector, before I continue I must ask; are you a cable believer?



Well, I've offered my opinions and Skylab's...we've both own BOTH headphones and came to this conclusion. As meet conditions go, we all know that any true critical assessments are far from "ideal". And cables have nothing to do with it.....it depends on the system, gear and the effects are minimal (used as a final tune up IMO).

 

BTW, you're synonyms set off my sour grapes detector.

post #1572 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post


I believe you really don't know what you've referred to in terms of "flabbier"...LoL. There is a second T1 graph there that is quite different....then there's the whole measurement system issue and variability associated with it. Not to mention, there are no DT880s there to compare to for crying out loud.

 

Again, have you heard the T1s?

 


http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1SN3964.pdf

Second graph looks every bit as bad

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf

Here's the 880 for comparison.

 

I thought the T1 was more musical and engaging, but I thought it was a less accurate reproduction of the signal.  As an engineer, I need cans that are as cold, dead, and lifeless as possible.


Edited by PelPix - 12/20/11 at 6:51pm
post #1573 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post


http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT1SN3964.pdf

Second graph looks every bit as bad

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf

Here's the 880 for comparison.

 

I thought the T1 was more musical and engaging, but I thought it was a less accurate reproduction of the signal.  As an engineer, I need cans that are as cold, dead, and lifeless as possible.


When and under what circumstances did you hear the T1s and on what rig? Not sure if you're interpreting those graphs properly...not to mention you might want to google "Gage R&R". The one issue with totally relying on headphone measurements.

 

I had them both at home for about a month before passing final judgements.

 


Edited by MacedonianHero - 12/20/11 at 6:54pm
post #1574 of 10423

At my friend's.  I brought my 880's, which sounded great out of his setup.  I'm not actually entirely sure what it was.

What are you trying to argue?  The measurements support my previously detailed reasons for selecting the 880.  The T1's phase isn't flat, and the drivers are all loosey-goosey and "live-sounding"

I'm not saying the T1 sounds worse, just that it offers a less accurate reproduction of the exact electric signal put into it.  Again, those are very different things!  The human brain tends to enjoy phase that opens up near the top like the T1's does, and it also enjoys live-sounding drivers.  The T1's sound is preferable, but it isn't as accurate.


Edited by PelPix - 12/20/11 at 7:02pm
post #1575 of 10423
Quote:
Originally Posted by PelPix View Post

At my friend's.  I brought my 880's, which sounded great out of his setup.  I'm not actually entirely sure what it was.


Rig might I ask? How long?

 

Are your 880s 600 or 250 ohms?

 

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