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Are (High-end) Custom IEMs Overrated? - Page 29  

post #421 of 467
7/18/11 at 5:49pm

To come back around to this post...buy custom tips and get the best of both worlds.

 

Um-56, look into it.

 

 

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #422 of 467
7/19/11 at 3:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Lol...

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

Status update:

- I have a Sony EX-1000 in hand for evaluation for several days, so I am listening/comparing as much as I can

- I am also trying to make sure I have all the pictures I need and am A/Bing the Beat Audio Rose Supreme and Cronus cables as I need to send them back to their owner.  My cable comparison is about 75% complete.

- The SA-12 review is nearing completion

- I did sneak some time to compare the SA-43, JH16, and SE 5-way ksc75smile.gif

- The Anedio D1 DAC is very nice!

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

^ I may be wrong, of course, but I already anticipate average_joe's 'verdict' on the EX1000s. He's already written a few posts on this thread expressing his disagreement with my views, and things didn't go down too well between both of us. Over two weeks ago he already spoke of someone he knows - didn't say who it was, but most likely it was Joker - who had heard the EX1000s and the Miracle. Here's what average_joe wrote then:

 

"I know a Miracle owner that has heard just about every top tier universal and may be loaning me the EX1000 for some time and his take is the same as mine."

 

Average_joe's take, of course, being that customs are not overrated.



The old case of "I told you so" (see bolded text above) and now this (see below) posted a couple of hours ago:


Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post


.... While [the EX-1000 and FX700] are good and offer great clarity (especially the EX-1000), the bass on the EX-1000 is a little on the light/thin side and while the treble is enhanced, it isn't all that extended.  The FX700 bass is on the enhanced side, but neither are overly warm (EX-1000 is a little on the cold side).  The EX-1000 sounded pretty bright to me in comparison with many of my custom IEMs including when using a warm source such as the 801.

 

 

Now I'd like to clarify/correct something I posted two days ago (see bolded text below): When I compared the Sony EX1000 & 7550 4 days ago on the EX1000 thread, I didn't have both IEMs side by side and said so at the time (my EX1000s were away for nearly 3 weeks), and from memory I felt the 7550s was a little better. Yesterday I got my EX1000 back and did a direct comparison, and while the 7550s are indeed an excellent IEM, the EX1000 remains the best I've heard, the 7550 is a close second. These are my latest comments after having A/B'd both IEMs yesterday.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post


And even 20-30% compared to some - not all - top-tier universals may be a bit of a stretch. Here we also need to take into account sound preferences and what we personally regard/define as good SQ - e.g. I've found my EX1000 & MDR-750 to be a good 30-35% better than the SM3, about 25% better than the SE535 & SE530, roughly 20% better than the IE8, some 10-15% better than the UM3X/TF10/CK100, and about 5-7% better than the W4.

 

Yesterday I received my MDR-7550s and, on the whole, they're ever so slightly better even (to these ears) than the EX1000. So, this evening I put my EX1000s up for sale, and the $350 MDR-7550s are 30% cheaper than the $500 EX1000, though both can be had now for $300 & $400 respectively from authorised dealers (still a 30% price difference).

 

In my particular case, if the only top-tier universals I knew were the SM3/SE530/SE535 and my universals EX1000 & MDR-7550 were not universals but customs and worth, say, $1000, I might have thought that 'my new set of customs' worth so much money had gived me that improved sound.

 

I'd still have to worry about extra costs, re-fits, resale value, shipping, ear impressions, etc.

 

 

 


Edited by music_4321 - 7/19/11 at 3:35am
post #423 of 467
7/19/11 at 4:18am

Heh, at least his impressions of the JH16 so far are just that of one custom amongst many, rather than the 'omg wow bestest evaaar!' type stuff. That thread is pretty useful given it's practically the only one, at least gives people some food for thought. That said, while he praises the Spiral Ear customs, the previous posts about being choosey who you buy customs from.... I can't help but be slightly reserved about ordering customs from a Norweigan or Polish company I'd never even heard of till a few months ago, and AJ is the only person on here(?) who owns something from them. Not to say they might not deliver, but I'd rather not be a guinea pig buyer.

 

EDIT - worth noting that a couple of the customs he briefly compared favourably to the JH16s had less drivers, and the 'more is better' thing should really be nipped in the bud!


Edited by Somnambulist - 7/19/11 at 4:27am
post #424 of 467
7/19/11 at 4:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ck3n View Post
The 16s put bass and drums front and center, which was the designers intent. They're blatantly colored, sport over-hyped bass, peaky treble and recessed mids. Certainly not portraying source material the way the recording artists meant for it to sound. That doesn't prevent it from catering to some people's tastes, but to claim that they're the paragon of balance and neutrality is just ridiculous.

 

 

 

How confusing! :)

 

 

Quote:

After a day of listening (I have put in some time in the past) to the JH16, LS8, and SA-43 with some A/Bing, I have come to some basic conclusions, although this was with only one source: HUD-MX1 (opa1611 op amp) -> Stepdance.  The SA-43 is more spacious than the other two and can mimic the JH16 frequency response pretty closely with the presence switch off and the extra bass switch on.  Both the LS8 and SA-43 have a more 3D presentation than the JH16, and the LS8 is more dynamic and exciting to the JH16's more neutral presentation, although brighter and warmer at the same time due to a note that is thicker/more sustained.  Both the SA-43 and LS8 are a little richer in presentation next to the more analytical JH16.  The JH16 can pump out the bass, more than the LS8, but I am still not sure about the SA-43 vs. the JH16 in this regard.  While the LS8 is brighter than the JH16, they are closer than I would have thought.  Really, both could fill your need, but from a frequency response I would say the JH16 would be closer to what you are looking for.  Of course, I am still forming my opinions on the performance differences and need to use many different sources and more variety of music.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/541494/custom-iem-resource-thread-summary-reviews-info-custom-iem-manufacturers/255#post_7618567

post #425 of 467
7/19/11 at 6:29am

Appreciate your honesty with your reviews. Really helpful.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

Now I'd like to clarify/correct something I posted two days ago (see bolded text below): When I compared the Sony EX1000 & 7550 4 days ago on the EX1000 thread, I didn't have both IEMs side by side and said so at the time (my EX1000s were away for nearly 3 weeks), and from memory I felt the 7550s was a little better. Yesterday I got my EX1000 back and did a direct comparison, and while the 7550s are indeed an excellent IEM, the EX1000 remains the best I've heard, the 7550 is a close second. These are my latest comments after having A/B'd both IEMs yesterday.

 



 

post #426 of 467
7/19/11 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

I have to wonder why average_joe never got a Westone, Ultimate Ears, Unique Melody, or JHA custom - I should imagine a good reviewer would first know the most well known products and then compare those against other lesser known brands. 

 

Average joe is free to review  any IEM he chooses. No need use this as a reason for implying that he is not a good reviewer.

 

You can do the reviews for the products you want. Do not discredit someone else for this.

 

post #427 of 467
7/19/11 at 8:23am
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ru9 View Post

Average joe is free to review  any IEM he chooses. No need use this as a reason for implying that he is not a good reviewer.

 

You can do the reviews for the products you want. Do not discredit someone else for this.

 

 


I'm not trying to discredit AJ. He's also expressed what he thinks of my views, and some of his comments were not exactly very flattering - I have no issues whatsoever when people disagree with me for the 'right reasons'. This is nothing against average_joe as I could have expressed these same views sometime ago, but this time, today - in response to someone else's post - I've spoken of a pattern I've seen developing, and said that I personally would look for reviews elsewhere.
 
I did acknowledge - and I really do mean it - that he does provide some very valuable information.

 


Edited by music_4321 - 7/19/11 at 8:30am
post #428 of 467
7/19/11 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post



 



The old case of "I told you so" (see bolded text above) and now this (see below) posted a couple of hours ago:


 

Now I'd like to clarify/correct something I posted two days ago (see bolded text below): When I compared the Sony EX1000 & 7550 4 days ago on the EX1000 thread, I didn't have both IEMs side by side and said so at the time (my EX1000s were away for nearly 3 weeks), and from memory I felt the 7550s was a little better. Yesterday I got my EX1000 back and did a direct comparison, and while the 7550s are indeed an excellent IEM, the EX1000 remains the best I've heard, the 7550 is a close second. These are my latest comments after having A/B'd both IEMs yesterday.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post


And even 20-30% compared to some - not all - top-tier universals may be a bit of a stretch. Here we also need to take into account sound preferences and what we personally regard/define as good SQ - e.g. I've found my EX1000 & MDR-750 to be a good 30-35% better than the SM3, about 25% better than the SE535 & SE530, roughly 20% better than the IE8, some 10-15% better than the UM3X/TF10/CK100, and about 5-7% better than the W4.

 

Yesterday I received my MDR-7550s and, on the whole, they're ever so slightly better even (to these ears) than the EX1000. So, this evening I put my EX1000s up for sale, and the $350 MDR-7550s are 30% cheaper than the $500 EX1000, though both can be had now for $300 & $400 respectively from authorised dealers (still a 30% price difference).

 

In my particular case, if the only top-tier universals I knew were the SM3/SE530/SE535 and my universals EX1000 & MDR-7550 were not universals but customs and worth, say, $1000, I might have thought that 'my new set of customs' worth so much money had gived me that improved sound.

 

I'd still have to worry about extra costs, re-fits, resale value, shipping, ear impressions, etc.

 

 

 



omg lol  well maybe high end customs aren't overrated either biggrin.gif

 

(please take this less serious than it looks in type)

post #429 of 467
7/19/11 at 9:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

I have to wonder why average_joe never got a Westone, Ultimate Ears, Unique Melody, or JHA custom - I should imagine a good reviewer would first know the most well known products and then compare those against other lesser known brands. 
 
Originally, his JH16 was going to be a reshell and meant to be done by Kozee Sound Solutions, ie the JH16 was not directly purchased from JHA. Kozee is a 'company' average_joe practically single-handedly brought to peoples' attention. The JH16 reshell actually never materialised and nothing was said about what happened there. Suddenly, he purchases a brand new JH16 and the JH16 reshell becomes a thing of the past - very odd. Kozee, of course, being the 'company' where HF'ers are experiencing QC and, specially, CS issues. Why didn't he try to get the JH16 reshelled by UM who seem to have a decent reputation, specially considering the reshell was for a rather more complex product than, say, a JH5, ES3X, or UE10?
 
He also never got a set of JH13s, the most highly regarded custom on HF (at least for a very long time), and instead he got the Earsonics EM3Pro right at the height of the SM3 hype, the SM3 thread that he, BTW, started - Earsonics being another company that, until then, was virtually unknown, at least on HF. Practically all the customs average_joe owns are from unknown companies, which, I'm sure are very pleased they're being talked about on these forum threads - I find all of this rather peculiar.
 
I know some of the information average_joe provides is useful - some of it really very useful -, but I personally would prefer to get reviews on customs and/or other IEMs from different sources.

 


Please see bolded text above.

 

It's been brought to my attention that average_joe did, in fact, mention something (on 15th June) about his JH16 that I wasn't aware of. Here's the full post:


Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

I am not sure how much Kozee's customer service has improved, but I did have several conversations with Adam and Andy about various issues including my JH16 issue.  As always, they were very nice and want to provide good customer service and succeed.  I made several suggestions, so we shall see how things progress from here.

 

I will not go into great detail on my JH16 issue other than it has been resolved and I will be getting a new JH16 from JHA thanks to Kozee.  They are serious about standing behind their work and building Kozee into a reputable company.  This is a learning experience for them and if their process changes result in better customer service as well as getting each and every order correct, they will be another great US option.

 

I will update more in my custom resource thread a little later...

 

 

 

 


Edited by music_4321 - 7/19/11 at 9:38am
post #430 of 467
7/19/11 at 9:59am
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by n-phect View Post

omg lol  well maybe high end customs aren't overrated either biggrin.gif

 

 

Well, just a reminder that I have stated before that I think some (high-end) universal IEMs are overrated, but the difference between these and (high-end) customs is that you can sell your universals and recoup quite a bit, and in many instances you can just return them to the shop you got them from and get a full refund or in some cases just pay return shipping costs. The resale value of customs, on the other hand, is pretty low, and in some cases (cheaper customs) you may actually have a hard time selling them at all as the buyer may well opt for a brand new set rather than have a cheaper set of customs reshelled.
 
And a reminder that although the (currently $400-$500) EX1000 is my favourite IEM, I'd recommend to most people the $150-$200 EX600, which, to these ears, delivers about 90% of the EX1000 SQ, and though the EX600's build quality isn't as good as the EX1000, it is still VERY good, and it does come with detachable cables.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by n-phect View Post

 

(please take this less serious than it looks in type)

 
 
:)

Edited by music_4321 - 7/19/11 at 10:05am
post #431 of 467
7/19/11 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ru9 View Post

Average joe is free to review  any IEM he chooses. No need use this as a reason for implying that he is not a good reviewer.

 

You can do the reviews for the products you want. Do not discredit someone else for this.

 


x2

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

I'm not trying to discredit AJ. He's also expressed what he thinks of my views, and some of his comments were not exactly very flattering - I have no issues whatsoever when people disagree with me for the 'right reasons'. This is nothing against average_joe as I could have expressed these same views sometime ago, but this time, today - in response to someone else's post - I've spoken of a pattern I've seen developing, and said that I personally would look for reviews elsewhere.

 
I did acknowledge - and I really do mean it - that he does provide some very valuable information.

 


 

OK, but.......

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
I have to wonder why average_joe never got a Westone, Ultimate Ears, Unique Melody, or JHA custom - I should imagine a good reviewer would first know the most well known products and then compare those against other lesser known brands. 

 



eek.gif

 

I really struggle with your posts music_4321.   Essentially, underneath the sometimes aggressive tone, childish responses and stalker-like quotes you regurgitate on behalf of other people (as if they aren't able to speak their own mind), I respect your experience and your views, and with this thread, actually agree with your standpoint on high end customs.  IMO though, your message gets lost within the rest of your agenda and your need to make everyone see your point of view.

 

Just my 2c

post #432 of 467
7/19/11 at 10:20am
Thread Starter 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeO View Post

I really struggle with your posts music_4321.   Essentially, underneath the sometimes aggressive tone, childish responses and stalker-like quotes you regurgitate on behalf of other people (as if they aren't able to speak their own mind), I respect your experience and your views, and with this thread, actually agree with your standpoint on high end customs.  IMO though, your message gets lost within the rest of your agenda and your need to make everyone see your point of view.

 

Just my 2c

 

 

I thought you'd decided to unsubscribe to this thread. Perhaps now you really should.

 

 


Edited by music_4321 - 7/19/11 at 10:22am
post #433 of 467
7/19/11 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
 

 

I thought you'd decided to unsubscribe to this thread. Perhaps now you really should.

 

 



You're right, and since I unsubscribed, I haven't been on the thread.  But it was high up on the list in the portable forum, I clicked and read back from where I'd left off.

 

If its alright with you, I'll keep subscribed as, your posts aside, there are some great posts and opinions on this thread.  You on the other hand continue to push things and have gone too far now IMO with your views and agenda.  Speaking for people and dragging up old posts to backup your arguement is bad enough, but to imply a well respected HFier is not a good reviewer takes the pi$$.

 

Shame.

 

post #434 of 467
7/19/11 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeO View Post

I really struggle with your posts music_4321.   Essentially, underneath the sometimes aggressive tone, childish responses and stalker-like quotes you regurgitate on behalf of other people (as if they aren't able to speak their own mind), I respect your experience and your views, and with this thread, actually agree with your standpoint on high end customs.  IMO though, your message gets lost within the rest of your agenda and your need to make everyone see your point of view.

 

Just my 2c

 

 

I thought you'd decided to unsubscribe to this thread. Perhaps now you really should.

 

 



In my opinion, he gave you genuinely constructive criticism.  Often the proper response to constructive criticism is to take it to heart, not to shoot the messenger.  I really do agree that your message is being clouded by your approach.

 

Also, you need to understand that even after reading this thread and considering your perspective, there are still those of us who disagree with it.  I am still planning to buy ES5's at whatever point they are easily affordable for me, and this thread has had no negative effect on that decision.

 

I do understand your message that there are many younger members of the forum who are attracted to customs, possibly for the wrong reasons.  But young people buying things for the wrong reasons is not a new problem, and it's unlikely you'll solve it in this thread.

 

My two cents,

 

Harley.

post #435 of 467
7/19/11 at 11:42am
Thread Starter 

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post

In my opinion, he gave you genuinely constructive criticism.  

 
Please allow me to disagree.

Quote:

I really do agree that your message is being clouded by your approach.

 
Fair enough - you're entitled to your opinion
 
Quote:

Also, you need to understand that even after reading this thread and considering your perspective, there are still those of us who disagree with it.  

 
I don't have a problem with that.
 
Quote:
I am still planning to buy ES5's at whatever point they are easily affordable for me, and this thread has had no negative effect on that decision.
 
Does that mean I've failed? I'm sure there are many who come to this thread and, like you, still go ahead and get a set of customs.
 
Quote:
I do understand your message that there are many younger members of the forum who are attracted to customs, possibly for the wrong reasons. 
 
It's not only young(er) people who are attracted to customs, though they're the ones more easily influenced and the ones who contribute the most to hyping a piece of gear.
 
Quote:

But young people buying things for the wrong reasons is not a new problem, and it's unlikely you'll solve it in this thread.

 
That's been discussed already and I've never thought I'd solve "the problem" with this thread.

Edited by music_4321 - 7/19/11 at 11:51am
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