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Are (High-end) Custom IEMs Overrated? - Page 28  

post #406 of 467
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post


Just an FYI, there is/was a technical issues w/ the UM Merlin demo that I had project86 confirm.  That is the reason I've delayed sending the unit to reviewers till i get a replacement unit which hopefully resolves the issue.  This is a whole other can of worms, not even related to demos versus customs for the most part.  If you want to know more you know where to hit me up.  

 

 

All the more reason to avoid customs at all costs.  ;)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullCircle View Post

 

 

NRR2.jpg

 



Very interesting graph...



Quote:
Originally Posted by FullCircle View Post

Some more information on "Real World Attenuation Values"

 

http://www.freehearingtest.com/nrr.shtml 


...and a very interesting article.

 

post #407 of 467
Thread Starter 

The following (see below) was posted a few minutes ago. The manufacturer in question is Kozee Sound Solutions - seems Sinocelt is not the only head-fier in that thread experiencing CS & QC issues.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post

Updated timeline:

 

  • On 4/2, Adam confirmed reception of my ear impressions.
  • On 5/2, I asked for an update.
  • On 5/4, Adam answered: "They are right in the middle of the process.  I'll let you know when they are being sent out.  Thanks for your patience!"
  • On 5/19, I asked for an update.
  • No answer.
  • On 6/1, I asked for an update.    
  • On 6/15, Adam sent me an email to let me know he'd finished my monitors and would send them the following day.
  • On 6/17, Adam sent me an email to let me know he'd sent my monitors the day before.
  • On 6/20, I received the X1 (in Taiwan).
  • On 6/15, Adam sent me an email to let me know he'd finished my monitors and would send them the following day.
  • On 6/17, Adam sent me an email to let me know he'd sent my monitors the day before.
  • On 6/20, I received the X1 (in Taiwan).
  • On 6/25, I sent an email to Adam to let him know I had a fit problem with the left monitor.
  • No answer.
  • On 7/7, I sent an email to Adam to remind him of my fit problem.
  • No answer.

 

The pain in my left ear is enough that I've given up on using the X1. I'm back to using my HF5.

 

 

  • On 7/16, I sent another email to Adam to remind him of my fit problem.
  • No answer.

 


Edited by music_4321 - 7/17/11 at 8:47am
post #408 of 467

Seriously n-phect? Because you can't swear here by typing that you resort to Youtube videos? How is that acceptable?

 

And music, you don't see it unreasonable to warn someone and mention reporting him to the mods because they keep posting previously mentioned opinions but you just simply sit back and enjoy that youtube video?

 

How old are you guys? This must be the worst thread I ever subscribed here on head-fi...

 

Good luck in your bashing customs and customs owners

 

 

post #409 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

The following (see below) was posted a few minutes ago. The manufacturer in question is Kozee Sound Solutions - seems Sinocelt is not the only head-fier in that thread experiencing CS & QC issues.

 

 


TThis sort of thing happens a lot with custom-anything, for example, guitar luthiers. The big boys charge a lot, the smaller guys try and undercut by offering built to spec stuff at attractive prices, loads of people think 'bargain!' and throw orders at them, and they end up getting inundated with work and haven't the manpower, or often the finance/business experience or power to run things properly, customer service goes AWOL, rushing to finish products creates errors/sloppy worksmanship, people don't receive their guitars, get angry etc. It's why if you're going to buy anything customised for yourself, err on the side of caution and go with those with a proven track record. There are custom IEM companies popping up left right and centre at the moment, which is good for competition, but if I was to order one, I'd stick with those with a consistently good customer service who've had a few years under their belt and haven't bitten off more than they could chew. It wouldn't put me off buying customs as much as making me fussier about who I order from in the first place.

post #410 of 467
Unfortunately, someones need to bite the bullet so that the little guy has the opportunity to learn and grow to be a respectable company with years under their belt. It's tough to start off with the qualities you seek for most small startups because frankly funding for such quality staffing and quality operations at a larger scale is probably very difficult to come by. Your attitude while prudent would ultimately stifle competition I feel, leaving no attractively priced options to put the big guys on notice.
post #411 of 467
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuceka View Post

Seriously n-phect? Because you can't swear here by typing that you resort to Youtube videos? How is that acceptable?

 

And music, you don't see it unreasonable to warn someone and mention reporting him to the mods because they keep posting previously mentioned opinions but you just simply sit back and enjoy that youtube video?

 

How old are you guys? This must be the worst thread I ever subscribed here on head-fi...

 

Good luck in your bashing customs and customs owners

 

 

 


No, I never intended to report someone just because "they keep posting previously mentioned opinions" - I saw the same poster simply coming back to this thread trying to provoke a reaction and stir things up. 
 
And, while I agree with you that the YouTube video may be inappropriate - perhaps even quite inappropriate -, I just found it quite funny (considering the context in which it was posted). Hey, my intentions are good, and I suppose I should be allowed to make the odd 'mistake' here and there.

 

post #412 of 467
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somnambulist View Post


TThis sort of thing happens a lot with custom-anything, for example, guitar luthiers. The big boys charge a lot, the smaller guys try and undercut by offering built to spec stuff at attractive prices, loads of people think 'bargain!' and throw orders at them, and they end up getting inundated with work and haven't the manpower, or often the finance/business experience or power to run things properly, customer service goes AWOL, rushing to finish products creates errors/sloppy worksmanship, people don't receive their guitars, get angry etc. It's why if you're going to buy anything customised for yourself, err on the side of caution and go with those with a proven track record. There are custom IEM companies popping up left right and centre at the moment, which is good for competition, but if I was to order one, I'd stick with those with a consistently good customer service who've had a few years under their belt and haven't bitten off more than they could chew. It wouldn't put me off buying customs as much as making me fussier about who I order from in the first place.


You're absolutely right. Not long ago I was almost 'demonised' in a different thread for trying to warn head-fiers of the very same things you mention.

 

There often is someone who starts working with said small outfits - they get a perfect product (perhaps even for free or with a huge discount in exchange for reviews/marketing) and, of course, they get exceedingly good CS and a quality product. The manufacturer -- or often a one-man outfit -- knows very well about head-fi, the #1 website that specialises in these kinds of products. Then, as you rightly mentioned, things often go pear-shaped. You try to warn people about it, or at least ask them to be cautious, but the hype suddenly becomes unstoppable - "Everybody loves a bargain!" - and then you're told you're raining on someone's parade... or a lot worse than that.

 

post #413 of 467

I don't know about any bone conduction.  But I can say that foam comply tips are more comfortable to me than customs are.  Not to say that customs are uncomfortable, but I will take soft foam over hard plastic in your ear so deep it's almost touching your brain in the comfort dept.  But once they are in, it's no big deal.  I will take the sound improvement of more drivers w crossover any day over a slight decrease in comfort from universals.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ru9 View Post




 

@Fullcircle, then that leaves comfort as the reason for getting a custom.

I read that "bone conduction" is another factor. Is this valid?

 



 

post #414 of 467

FYI

 

It really does not matter what you pack in your ears, hard, soft, etc etc.  There comes a point where bone conduction will occur, you can even remove the osscicular chain and bone conduction will still occur.

 

That point is around 60dB and this will varry from frequency to frequency. What this simply means is if someone had the best, most premium ear plugs on, along with ear muffs, giving 60dB of REAL NRR value, they still will hear sound, when they are exposed to SPL of 60dB +-

 

There is a lot of information regarding this on the net, but to get you started:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17407895 

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #415 of 467

I think so; IEMs in generally are a bit overrated.  Really, on the go, you have to be pretty antisocial and absorbed in your music to really pay attentional to all the quality and details they're putting out.  I have an idea that the more input you're receiving( in this case, sound,) the less output, or even input you can receive in areas of your attention such as looking around, or awareness.  Now that may be BS, but I still fully back up my first and second statements

post #416 of 467

There is no reason to discount your opinion. The brain can only process so much information, even still, the brain is very amazing for what it does.  We are still not even sure how we hear. We have a fairly good idea, but not the total picture. 

 

 

That said, if I could, I would still buy a BMW M1 even if I can not technically drive the car to the point where I experience all the capabillities that the car offers.


Edited by FullCircle - 7/17/11 at 4:56pm

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #417 of 467

    Yes the customer may lose a few hundred dolars, but the owner of the start up company may lose his or her life's savings for producing failed products.  I think the burden or liability of risk lays much higher on a newly budding company than it does on the customer.

 

Also, it seems to me, new companies are held to a higher standard.....  as if folks are just waiting for a chance to say... "See, I told you so....."  

 

While other companies that have been around for a while can produce products that are not near to specs,(ex: missing art work)  or leave their customers waiting for 7+ months on pre-order product launch, or packaging that could not even inspire a yawn, and the list can go on and on.

 

All the while, the infant company is required to offer more service, better products, better packaging, faster turn around times, for less than half what the established companies ask for, it does not make since to me.

 

But it is inspiring to watch UM & others rise up, despite all of this.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post


 


You're absolutely right. Not long ago I was almost 'demonised' in a different thread for trying to warn head-fiers of the very same things you mention.

 

There often is someone who starts working with said small outfits - they get a perfect product (perhaps even for free or with a huge discount in exchange for reviews/marketing) and, of course, they get exceedingly good CS and a quality product. The manufacturer -- or often a one-man outfit -- knows very well about head-fi, the #1 website that specialises in these kinds of products. Then, as you rightly mentioned, things often go pear-shaped. You try to warn people about it, or at least ask them to be cautious, but the hype suddenly becomes unstoppable - "Everybody loves a bargain!" - and then you're told you're raining on someone's parade... or a lot worse than that.

 



 

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #418 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by n-phect View Post



 

problem is that doesn't necessarily make them better. I bet if you were to wear your 530s for two weeks, you would fall back into that signature, and love it again.  I have seen a common thread with my listening, that whatever i listen to the most, my brain adjusts to that signature and most of the time, i begin to like it a lot.

 

that being said, some are more accurate than others.

 

my sony ex300s are not accurate at all, but i can't get enough of them, im not sure why.  msrp $80  amazon $20
 

 


 

Comparing oranges with oranges (both without EQ), I would never in my life fall back into the SE530's signature. Let's just say its absolutely lifeless, there is no bass and no highs. All you hear is mids.

 

Now after EQing (V shaped EQing), the SE530 becomes a very capable IEM, and it pretty much makes you wonder if the BA drivers in there are so capable, why isn't the crossover tuned more appropriately?

 

And that's where things are different. Not 3, 5, or 8 drivers. But how the crossover is tuned.

 

Good speakers have good crossovers inside, and don't need any equalizing to sound good.

 

EQ is just a way of fixing what is wrong with the transducer.

post #419 of 467

maybe the folks that tuned the x-overs idea of "good" sound is different from yours...?

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #420 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullCircle View Post

maybe the folks that tuned the x-overs idea of "good" sound is different from yours...?



Well, if audio quality was 100% subjective, head-fi wouldn't exist. I find that quite often what I think sounds good, other people find good too.

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