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Are (High-end) Custom IEMs Overrated? - Page 22  

post #316 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

That's why I tell everyone not to visit Austria or buy any products made in that country.  :)


The only way to know if you get a genuine AKG is if it says 'Made in China'.  wink.gif

 

I know what you mean though.  I've had better Paella outside of Spain.  tongue.gif

 

post #317 of 467

^ Here's a funny story: In 2006 the Austrian/Swiss company Doppelmayr, world's largest producer of ski lifts, received reports from China that some of their lifts had shown serious technical defects. They sent an inspection team only to find that these lifts were actually fakes built by local companies, pretty much exact replicas to the very last bolt including the Doppelmayr logo. You got to admire the audacity of these people, I mean who else has the guts to fake a whole ski lift?

 

doppelmayr.jpg

post #318 of 467
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 View Post

... [Austrian/Swiss company Doppelmayr] sent an inspection team only to find that these lifts were actually fakes built by local companies, pretty much exact replicas to the very last bolt including the Doppelmayr logo...

 

 

Thanks for posting that - a few minutes ago I was this close to purchasing a ski lift on eBay for $0.99  ;)

 

On a related note, and now being completely serious, it's interesting to note that Westone's UM3Xs (made in the USA) -- both the original (fixed cable) version, and the subsequent one (with removable cables, including the UM2-RC) -- have had more QC issues than the 'Made in China' W3s & W4s (which are not fakes, BTW).


Edited by music_4321 - 7/6/11 at 2:37pm
post #319 of 467

Hey there, I were sent here to throw in my recent experience with my 1964 quad driver customs. Before these I owned a set of UE Triple-Fi 10v and after waiting for 2 long months I finally got these - Initial experience: Wow, this is....Bad. They didn't fit and didn't really sound amazing (coming from the Triple-Fi's that is). 

Now about a month later things have changed slightly: Left IEM is suck a loose fit that it lets outside noise in, by such a degree that with my left ear i can hear clearly if i turn the music off - and this is obviously both uncomfortable and disturbs my listening unless I'm in a quiet room, i which case i would use my full-size cans, rendering these (Left side) useless. The right side fits..BUT! the cable connector is pressed hard against my ear so it hurts a lot over time. All these cons pretty much overshadows the sonic improvement to me - They've got that bit of bass I wanted over the rather dull triple fi 10, but even so, i now find that in lack of my fullsize cans i tend to use my vintage pioneer SE L40 for fullsize and a pair of skullcandy TiTan as IEM a LOT more than the customs...Thats right, a skullcandy crap-bud may just have almost beaten a 800$ (with tax etc) custom IEM, simply by actually doing its job without torturing me at the same time. 

 

And from all the cases of wasting endless sums of money and time on refitting I am inches away from just trading these for a pair of Westone 4 if thats even going to be possible. My custom adventure may just have ended before it started - Its going to take a LOT to make me want to spend money on custom IEMs again.

 

I am really sad about this, but that how things are.

post #320 of 467

Are you still within the refit window? It sounds like a new set of impressions and a refit are in order here and that might help out. This story does bring to light though one of the slightly "hidden" costs of custom's in the possible need for more impressions and then additional shipping charges especially for those shipping between country's.

post #321 of 467



          I am an audiologist, and I have worked in a hearing aid lab before. I also build Custom CIEMs for a hobby.  To be honest, I think that the issue is with your ear mold impressions, because to have a fit THAT bad, (in my opinion) would require a poor ear mold impression.  I am not shifting blame on the customer, but if you get new impressions, make sure they use a silicone based material and not a "liquid powder" impression matterial. Liquid powder will shift in shape over time, and I would assume the time required for shipping would be long enough to cause problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorHalgaard View Post

Hey there, I were sent here to throw in my recent experience with my 1964 quad driver customs. Before these I owned a set of UE Triple-Fi 10v and after waiting for 2 long months I finally got these - Initial experience: Wow, this is....Bad. They didn't fit and didn't really sound amazing (coming from the Triple-Fi's that is). 

Now about a month later things have changed slightly: Left IEM is suck a loose fit that it lets outside noise in, by such a degree that with my left ear i can hear clearly if i turn the music off - and this is obviously both uncomfortable and disturbs my listening unless I'm in a quiet room, i which case i would use my full-size cans, rendering these (Left side) useless. The right side fits..BUT! the cable connector is pressed hard against my ear so it hurts a lot over time. All these cons pretty much overshadows the sonic improvement to me - They've got that bit of bass I wanted over the rather dull triple fi 10, but even so, i now find that in lack of my fullsize cans i tend to use my vintage pioneer SE L40 for fullsize and a pair of skullcandy TiTan as IEM a LOT more than the customs...Thats right, a skullcandy crap-bud may just have almost beaten a 800$ (with tax etc) custom IEM, simply by actually doing its job without torturing me at the same time. 

 

And from all the cases of wasting endless sums of money and time on refitting I am inches away from just trading these for a pair of Westone 4 if thats even going to be possible. My custom adventure may just have ended before it started - Its going to take a LOT to make me want to spend money on custom IEMs again.

 

I am really sad about this, but that how things are.



 

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #322 of 467
Thread Starter 

 

Yes, it does sound like an ear-impressions issue. Recently, it was discussed in this thread that many audiologists may still use a powder-based material as most ear impressions are used for making hearing aids, which are normally made in the same country the customer resides.
 
Shipping powder-based ear impressions to the US (from a European country) can take up to two weeks or longer. An (expensive) option, if only this type of ear impressions is available, is to use a courier service (FedEx/UPS/DHL) which can take 2-4 days (door to door). This will still not guarantee having fit issues but the risks can be significantly minimised.

Edited by music_4321 - 7/11/11 at 1:53am
post #323 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

This will still not guarantee having fit issues...


So what would you recommend if I wanted fit issues at all costs? wink.gif (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

post #324 of 467
Thread Starter 

^ In that case, the best option is to not send ear impressions and ask the manufacturer to use someone else's ear impressions instead. That will not only guarantee fit issues, but you'd be saving on expensive shipping costs as well.  ;)

post #325 of 467

or just buy a used CIEM off of e-bay


Edited by FullCircle - 7/11/11 at 2:47am

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #326 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

^ In that case, the best option is to not send ear impressions and ask the manufacturer to use someone else's ear impressions instead. That will not only guarantee fit issues, but you'd be saving on expensive shipping costs as well.  ;)


 

You're taking a big risk guaranteeing fit issues when, for all you know, that someone else's ears might just be close to identical to james444s.

 

I think my audiologist used a powder based compound, but I'm not sure - I've e-mailed him to find out. If so, and my next set still doesn't fit perfectly, I'll know what to try next.

 

edit: he used a silicon based compound and stressed the importance of using compounds of high quality to ensure a good fit.


Edited by b0ck3n - 7/12/11 at 1:09am
post #327 of 467



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

^ Yeah, I read that it's supposed to be at 50Hz, but did you really hear it that way? dfkt and I both heard the hump at 100Hz. He had some dubstep track on his Clip and both the W4 and his UE11 had nice subbass with it. Only on the JH13-D the subbass was pretty much drowned out by midbass.


I have listened and really didn't get any sense of extra midbass. Perhaps the universal tips are having an effect. Can't say but I don't recall owners of the jh13s having that particular reaction. The 16, which many here like, was just way too thick for me. I think whether one feel customs worth the money or not, we know universal tips affect the sound. Something designed not to have them could only be affected adversely. Doesn't mean that I'm right and your wrong but perhaps an explanation of why we hear it differently.
 

That said, I did play something that would have made me aware of a 100hz emphasis but nothing to tell me about it's sub 50hz response.

 

Are you sure we're talking about the right frequencies because the other 2 phones have more bass in general and that emphasis is generally above 50hz, not below.


Edited by goodvibes - 7/11/11 at 6:05am
post #328 of 467

Let me pose a different question instead: Are flagship custom IEMs overrated.

 

The argument here seems to be that $1000+ are hard to be satisfied with.  I've got Alclair's flagship line and i'm incredibly happy with them (so long as the recording is of high quality).  In fact, I'm happier with these than with my returned Westones.  And i only paid $400 for triple drivers.

post #329 of 467
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuamercer View Post

Let me pose a different question instead: Are flagship custom IEMs overrated.

 



Lower priced customs have also been discussed and one of the disadvantages, apart from the usual, refits, (overseas) extra shipping costs, etc., is that the resale value of entry-level customs is worse (or practically worthless) than higher-end customs as most people would opt for a brand new set because these are not 'that' expensive, rather than have them re-shelled, which doesn't guarantee a quality finished product.

post #330 of 467

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vantagesc View Post

I find that with most things, you must pay a huge premium to get that last 10-15% of performance. Never owned a custom IEM, but it does not surprise me that this rule holds true with IEMs, as it does with speakers, televisions, computers, food, etc...


and with watches, diminishing returns start at $5 when it comes to telling the time =p but it's nice to have a high quality piece of metal with sapphire front on your arm, that you'll find on models in countless magazines.  Someone pointed this out in regards to Final Audio, and I think if they invested heavily in models, sports stars, or famous musicians using Final Audio IEM's in magazines or on TV, it'd work.  Imagine someone like Hilary Hahn with the Piano Forte VIII saying "In music, like with violins, I only listen to the best" etc. 

 

I'd never buy a Lacoste or Gucci IEM if that started, and I like cheap chinese products that are right up there at the ~90% mark of sound-quality, but FA feels a bit more like getting a nice Seiko watch and I think that's what FA is aiming for.

 

 

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