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Are (High-end) Custom IEMs Overrated? - Page 12  

post #166 of 467

Its possible. It suppose to have the same wolfson as the samsung galaxy so it is a good one. But probably LG mess up the design with bad layout and cheap components for the headphone out.

ES5 is not easy to drive (if you want to really achieve what it can do). It has 5 BA  which mean 5 frequency dependent impedance, so if the source mess up the output impedance (= too low output current) it messes up the freq response.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post




Interesting, is the LG messing w/ the impedance curve at all?  I liked the FX700 but never preferred it in any way of the 5.  The FX700 certainly is less fickle of sources and files.



 

post #167 of 467

Listening to a JH13 demo unit as I type, so I'm not actually entitled to comment on whether customs are overrated. All I can say for now is, that the JH13-d is very good, but not in a different league as compared to my favorite universal IEMs. Not sure for how long I'll be able to keep it and thus still contemplating whether it's worth starting a seperate impressions/comparison thread, but as it stands they manage to impress me, but don't blow me away. smile_phones.gif

post #168 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Listening to a JH13 demo unit as I type, so I'm not actually entitled to comment on whether customs are overrated. All I can say for now is, that the JH13-d is very good, but not in a different league as compared to my favorite universal IEMs. Not sure for how long I'll be able to keep it and thus still contemplating whether it's worth starting a seperate impressions/comparison thread, but as it stands they manage to impress me, but don't blow me away. smile_phones.gif


Using the Clip+ again?  tongue_smile.gifwink_face.gif

 

post #169 of 467

^ Well, I know your take on source and you know mine. wink.gif For the record, I've never owned a Clip (it's a Fuze, hehe). But seriously, my favorite source has been a Samsung R0 during the last few months, since it's the cleanest and least hissy of my DAPs (AMP3, Fuze, i9, A845). Btw it took me less than 10 minutes of A/B to confirm that the FI-BA-SS are more revealing of bad source than the JH13-d, so I don't think source will be an issue here.

post #170 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

^ Well, I know your take on source and you know mine. wink.gif For the record, I've never owned a Clip (it's a Fuze, hehe). But seriously, my favorite source has been a Samsung R0 during the last few months, since it's the cleanest and least hissy of my DAPs (AMP3, Fuze, i9, A845). Btw it took me less than 10 minutes of A/B to confirm that the FI-BA-SS are more revealing of bad source than the JH13-d, so I don't think source will be an issue here.


Very nice.  Awaiting further data.  biggrin.gif

 

post #171 of 467
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Listening to a JH13 demo unit as I type, so I'm not actually entitled to comment on whether customs are overrated. All I can say for now is, that the JH13-d is very good, but not in a different league as compared to my favorite universal IEMs. Not sure for how long I'll be able to keep it and thus still contemplating whether it's worth starting a seperate impressions/comparison thread, but as it stands they manage to impress me, but don't blow me away. smile_phones.gif


That's interesting because I remember some people stating that the JH13 demo/universal "blows all other universals out of the water" or "the difference is night & day".

 

Of course, with a proper fitting full custom JH13 you'd get better SQ than with the demo unit, but I maintain that if one gets a good fit with a custom demo unit, then I doubt the difference between the demo and the full custom IEM should not be that significant/drastic - at least it wasn't for me with my UM3X & ES3X. And then, of course, in my case I later heard two other universals that sounded even better than the UM3X: the W4 & EX1000, the latter being on 'equal footing' SQ-wise to my $850 ES3X.

 


Edited by music_4321 - 6/19/11 at 3:36am
post #172 of 467



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post




That's interesting because I remember some people stating that the JH13 demo/universal "blows all other universals out of the water" or "the difference is night & day".

 

Of course, with a proper fitting full custom JH13 you'd get better SQ than with the demo unit, but I maintain that if one gets a good fit with a custom demo unit, then I doubt the difference between the demo and the full custom IEM should not be that significant/drastic - at least it wasn't for me with my UM3X & ES3X. And then, of course, in my case I later heard two other universals that sounded even better than the UM3X: the W4 & EX1000, the latter being on 'equal footing' SQ-wise to my $850 ES3X.

 


What type of speaker technology does the EX1000 use?
 

 

post #173 of 467

16mm Dynamic driver.  Anybody know of any other headphones with drivers of that size or great? 

post #174 of 467
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tronz View Post


What type of speaker technology does the EX1000 use?
 

 



Here

post #175 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Q View Post

16mm Dynamic driver.  Anybody know of any other headphones with drivers of that size or great? 


Final Audio Design's 1601 and 1602 series.

post #176 of 467

TL:DR

 

I find the blend of custom tips (um56) and various universal headphones (currently using W4) to be a great sweet spot for me.  As a bonus when I sell an IEM the bag of foamies are untouched and are easier to resell.

post #177 of 467

Impressions on the JH13-D are up here. smile_phones.gif

post #178 of 467
Thread Starter 

Earlier today in the JH13 Appreciation thread there were two posts by qusp & grawk (see below) in response to james444's impressions linked in the post above. I responded to both posts in that thread, but thought the contents were appropriate to what's been discussed in this thread so here they are:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post

al explained by being demos, deep bass with customs comes from bone conduction, which you would be missing with the universal and they have probably bumped up the bass to account for that, each custom is usually tuned to your ear shape to match the response of your canals, again missing. but hey you can have your opinion, doesnt change what i hear. critical reviews of the universals are fairly much meaningless to me. all the time in the world will not change these facts

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post

the demos just give you an. idea of what youre getting,but they fall well short of the final result. otherwise, theyde just massproduce the universals and save a lot of hassle.

 


 

Well, my universal UM3X gave me a lot more than just "an idea" when I got the full custom version, the $850 ES3X, both IEMs having exactly the same drivers and crossovers (verified by Westone themselves). My UM3X came close to delivering 90% of the SQ found on my ES3X, and I do have a perfect fit with my customs after going through 3 re-fits (4 sets) and 2 sets of ear impressions.
 
Also, I'm not sure making a mass-produced universal version of the JH13 would be that simple, otherwise I'm quite convinced Westone, UE and/or JHA would have done a similar thing already with the ES5, UE18, UE11. And although JHA would no doubt make a bigger profit with the universal version of the JH13s, selling a pair for $1,100 isn't exactly like they're just making a few 'bucks' with every set they sell.
 

 

 

 

Later, there was another post by grawk (see below) and my response to it only a few minutes ago: 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by grawk View Post

Be that as it may, there's a large gulf between the JH13 customs and the JH13 universals.  I'm honestly surprised of reports of other customs where that isn't true.

 

 

You say you're "surprised of reports of other customs where that isn't true".  That's why I was very clear about the fact I had 3 re-fits, ie four ES3X sets and two sets of ear impressions. Why would I not state what I hear? True, I was somewhat disappointed that I didn't get a more significant improvement in SQ over my $350 UM3X, and I certainly have no hidden agenda against Westone as I still went ahead and purchased a second set of UM3X (with removable cables) long after I got my customs, and even later got the more expensive ($450) Westone 4. I also have no hidden agenda against customs, but I'm very critical of some of the claims made about customs by so many people.
 
If there's such a large gulf between the JH13 demo and the 'real thing', as you say, all I can say is I believe you didn't get such a good fit with the JH13 demo. Why would JHA (or Westone, or UM) offer a taste of something that is so far from the full custom version? That wouldn't be very wise from a business perspective, would it?
 
Also, there have been other people - granted, only a few who've made it public - who have stated that the full custom version of the JH13 (or other customs for that matter) does not offer such a great improvement over some top-tier universals as they thought it would originally.
 
I have my own thoughts as to why there seem to be such differing views, but this is not the right place/thread to speculate or talk about them. You're more than welcome to discuss the matter in this thread.

 


Edited by music_4321 - 6/23/11 at 12:12pm
post #179 of 467

^ I met up with dfkt to let him try the JH13 demo, while I tried his UE11 customs that fit me with the help of decored olives. The impression I got about his UE11 was pretty much the same as his own, so at least with the UE11 it didn't seem to matter much whether they were worn as full customs or with the help of tips. Btw here's his ABI post on that topic (you might not like the SM3 part ;-)

 

Quote:
View Post

The whole "customs vs. universals" and "more drivers is better" stuff is blown way out of proportion. They're all on the same level of audio quality - SM3, W4, UE11, JH13 - just a bit different tuning between them. They all have excellent dynamics, great clarity, and a similar stereo imaging.

They all have of course somewhat different frequency responses, and one of them (the W4) does sound slightly thinner than the other three. But for sound quality it really doesn't matter much if you have 3, 4, 5 or 6 drivers, or if you use silicone tips or a custom mold.

 

Bottom line, I don't know whether that story about the JH13 customs being significantly better than their demo version is fact or fiction, but I'm definitely not gonna shell out that kind of money to find out.


Edited by james444 - 6/23/11 at 1:42pm
post #180 of 467

My experience with IEMs is actually quite limited, but I felt like adding what little I have.

 

I went to a shop nearby that held the W3 and UM3x, and I got them to ask for an ES5 demo universal to be shipped there for auditioning. I went through all three very quickly - the W3 wasn't a big hit with me but the UM3x I liked a lot. By the quick comparison I did the ES5 demo had better balance and detail than the UM3x.

 

I fell in love with the demo, and had a very hard time letting it go. I just wanted to play my entire library of music on it, and was late back for work. The demo definitely sold the ES5 for me, I wouldn't have been able to plunk down that kind of cash on something I couldn't know for sure that I'd like.

 

So, I got the final version and it wasn't really the same thing. Much more bass prominent and the treble was a bit too smooth for my liking. The biggest difference was definitely in the sub bass area, where I was now able to pick up alot more than with the demo. The highs have sort of come along since those first few days of listening, probably just me adjusting but as it stands now I love the ES5 signature and it doesn't really matter how that happened. That said I might've been happy with a UM3x or a W4 if I didn't need the ES5's superb isolation and security of fit for stage monitoring.

 

So anyways, IME the one area where the full custom is quite different from the demo version is in the sub bass region. Still, I've heard other reviewers say that the JH13 have a mid-bass hump, and Jerry himself is quoted as saying the JH13 has a 6db bass boost in the new JH3a thread (I regret that I don't have time to dig up that post now) which is pretty far from flat.

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