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Senn HD600/650 fans on the HD800 - owners only! - Page 3

post #31 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggf View Post
In other words, to answer jpelg, Klein would say that it's because we're greedy and therefore promiscuous, and, in the end, not the best judges of what real music sounds like anyway, because of that greed and perfectionism.
Well, I won't rule it out. We're all subject to forces like that, and owners of these phones have some motivation to validate their commitment of dollars, just as those considering them are motivated not to spend unwisely. But suppose, just suppose, that the HD800s are just simply better than their siblings, in a way that a plurality of critical listeners could agree on? That would require much less analytical psychology to understand, and it happens all the time. I thought ice cream was great, and I had my favorites for sure. Then I went to Italy and tasted gelato. I still like ice cream as much as I ever did, but put that and real gelato in front of me, and I'll pick the gelato every time.

In other words, gelato instantly became my new reference. Why? Because my real reference wasn't any ice cream itself, but an amorphous Platonic ideal of ice cream that exists somewhere in my subconscious.
post #32 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMahler View Post
I don't think the HD800 makes the HD600 and HD650s obsolete. There has been more premium headphones than the HD600s/650s for years. I understand the association between the 3 is that they are all Sennheiser. The only way I see the HD600/650 becoming obsolete is if the price were to come down a significant amount on the hd800. Even then,I could honestly see some people still prefer the 650s and 600s to the 800s. It would not be a common choice, but the laid back sound may be preferable for some people and some genres.

That's nice to hear. I have been meaning to pick up one of the 650/600 siblings. If the 800s are neutral, perhaps the neutral 600s may become the redundant phone for me. Then I can add the 650s sooner and get the 800s later on.
post #33 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by donunus View Post
Then again, Ive heard the jh13s are better sounding than the hd800s
Hahaha I have the UE10s and have no doubt the JH13s are the best IEM in the world right now........BUT I'm certain that no IEM can compete with any headphone mentioned in this thread........so i second the
post #34 of 88


Diana Krall - The Girl in the Other Room


HD600 (Bal Equinox)

track 1. voice very clear. piano sounds good. little hard though. bass not much weight but sounds nice still. drums sound decent. sound stage is average. best quality is the sound of the voice. very clear. piano definitely has a hard sound.

track 2. guitar in beginning sounds nice. some resonance, which is good. voice again is clear. very audible. little forward. piano again with the hard sound. bass sounds good but doesn't go very low. drums nice. not much impact though. sound stage is average.

track 3. bass - good articulation. but not low. drums sound nice but of only medium impact. hear but not feel. voice is clear and a bit forward. guitar is very nice. good tone. sounds better than the other instruments.

* 600 does voice very well and guitar. percussion and low notes are not its strengths. and there is not much in terms of texture.


HD650 (Bal Zu Mobius v.2)

1. bass is much better than 600. voice is clear. lows go lower. piano sounds better. not hard sounding. voice has more depth. sound stage is about same, maybe little better here. bass has a low not present with the 600. piano is more natural. drums/bass more impact.

2. guitar sounds good, same good reverb. voice is less forward. drums much better weight to them. voice is similar to piano. both less hard sounding. voice seems tad clearer/more forward on 600 but on 650 more natural. same with piano. more natural on 650. think heavier bass on 650 tends to cloud voice sometimes. sound stage is a little larger on the 650.

3. bass and drums so much better on 650. texture, weight, and just that low feeling you want from those instruments. voice sounds good. not as forward, which on the whole is probably better. more integrated into the music with rest of instruments. guitar is great on 650. was good on 600 too. piano is better. drums is better. bass is better. voice is more silky. but did seem to have more clarity with the 600 or was just more forward because of weaker bass quantity. more enjoyable on 650 than 600.

* 650 has good bass and lows and excels at texture, layering, nuance. the sound is more laid back than the 600 but more natural.


HD800 (Bal SAA Voice)

1. overall detail is better than either. you just hear more in the recording. voice is very natural but a tad forward. the 800 is not laid back like the 650. closer to 600 in presentation. piano is good. not hard. piano is slightly better than 650. voice is clearer than 650 (more forward) but also has a slight boomy quality to it, which i could do without. the forwardness is like the 600 but more depth.

2. voice is forward and clear like the 600 but natural like the 650. drums have good impact. no hardness to piano. drums good feel to them. nice impact/snap. strings have good resonance. voice is a bit forward, clear, but also still with a slight reverb.

3. sound stage is larger than both. voice is clear like 600. bass and drums have great articulation. bass and weight and texture of 650. impact is better though. voice is very natural. instrument separation and imaging is better. product of larger sound stage. guitar sounds excellent! such a sweet sound. piano is natural like 650.

* 800 has overall better detail than the 600/650. the sound stage is larger than both as well. voice is clearer on 800 but may sound better on the 650. sounds a little boomy on the 800. the voice is more forward on the 800 and i think that causes it. guitar is very good on all three. bass on 800 is good. might be more in quantity on 650 but quality and impact is better on 800. 600 is weak in this area. lows on 800 is about same on 650, but think a little better on the 800. piano is excellent on 800 and 650, but slightly better on the 800.
post #35 of 88
Double....sorry
post #36 of 88
Nice review vcoheda, thanks.
Waiting for HD800 to come out in the Netherlands in July....
post #37 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda View Post
is it possible that the HD800 will make other headphones obsolete.
Yes....heres why. In order to get to the Music, first the source material and source are channeled through an amp to effectively trans duce sound to you ears. What you hear first is ALL the system inadequacies, and the leftovers are the Music. they are that revealing.

For People with more than one Amp and one Source. Mix and match...see if all the past memory's of the gear, all the pluses and minuses are not laid threadbare. I've been doing just that for a part of today and the results are ear opening.

I love the 600 (I have two) the 580 and the 650 is on extended loan. They don't have a family resemblance.

Lets speak of headphone Family's. Can we all agree that family characteristics are shared by Grado (for example), Beyer...AT...Ultrasone, The entire stat' family?

Which one is right?... For the most accurate and neutral sound?... Anyone?

If they are busy sounding like members of a singular family how much of the Music is getting through un-scathed?

None....we (collectively) let our ears determine which was right for us....as individuals we picked the coloration that best suited or tastes and we forged ahead. Along came the HD800 and things are a changing! Neutrality anyone? Yup..these are the real deal! Revealing any and all aspects contained in the chain. Some may argue that this is not the first time this is true. Other, out of production legends bring up lofty memories of what was possible. But I don't think any have been this revealing, with every aspects of whats possible in recorded playback. The Bar has been raised and this is a wonderful reference tool for the Amp designer and Source development, because these very special transducers refuse to lie.
post #38 of 88
"this is a wonderful reference tool for the Amp designer and Source development"

But does that bring pleasure?

And is the point of art to be a "tool?"

And how many of us are amp designers or source developers?
post #39 of 88
x2.

The HD800 has the ability to transform into almost anything... no, it really doesn't, but it appears that way because it is insanely neutral and transparent. Alan hit the nail on the head. You aren't listening to the HD800. You are listening to the shortcomings in your gear first and foremost and the music follows. Swapping my power cords has revealed more of a difference than ever before -- one configuration yields a neutral and laid back sound and another yields a sibilant and dry sound. They can sound digital, edgy and lacking bass with one amp, and be lush, vibrant and have tons of bass impact with another.

It is going to be very difficult finding the gear that sounds best with these headphones, and frankly I don't think that will ever happen because there will always be better gear. I'm having a very hard time remaining content with the music I hear coming from the HD800 because I constantly hear things I want to improve. These headphones are that much of a technological marvel. And I actually don't hear anything coming from the HD800 at all -- there is no definitive point source for the sound, but it sounds like it's coming from speakers at a 55 or 60 degree angle located in front of you -- certainly not from drivers sitting on your ears.
post #40 of 88
"I'm having a very hard time remaining content with the music I hear coming from the HD800"

Is that the way that we want to go through the rest of our lives?

Does it make sense to pay $1400 for that kind of discontent?

Do you want a headphone which can never be "satisfactorily" amped?
post #41 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggf View Post
"this is a wonderful reference tool for the Amp designer and Source development"

But does that bring pleasure?

And is the point of art to be a "tool?"

And how many of us are amp designers or source developers?
Oh Please!
post #42 of 88
We've always been searching for the perfect headphone and this is as close to perfect as any headphone has ever come, certainly to my ears. And by perfect I mean extremely detailed, smooth, fast, neutral, accurate and incredibly transparent. That seems to be most people's definition of what a perfect headphone would be.

Isn't this what people look for in speakers? Once your speakers/transducers are as sonically transparent as currently possible, it's time to focus on the rest of the equipment in your chain.

I may be harder to please than other head-fiers so take my opinions with that in mind. But truthfully, are any head-fiers truly content with their gear? How many people here have refused to upgrade their gear ever again? If we were all that easily satisfied, we would be listening to Bose like the average consumer. This is a passionate hobby and the journey is often more enjoyable for me than actually sitting down and listening to the music.
post #43 of 88
Oh, please, oh please!

I'm asking myself the questions that I've asked in my last two posts, based upon intensive listening to the HD600, HD650, and HD800, with two amps.

The HD800 wins on points, but when I ask myself, "Which headphone do I want to pick up and put on my head in order to listen to music?" my hand reaches for the HD650.

When I ask, "If I could only keep one of these?" I answer the HD650.

When I think about keeping the HD800, I think instead about perhaps trying the JVC DX1000 again.

I'm trying to answer my own questions.

I'm also trying to put into words what other forum members may be thinking and feeling when faced with the onslaught of peer pressure and with impressions that don't fit their own impressions of the HD800 and instead feel like mind f*.

Ask yourself: Why do I need these in my life right now? I certainly ask this question when flipping headphones.

http://www.greggfedchak.com
post #44 of 88
interesting,your description reminds me of the K1000 while i had it.
they were so transparent it was scary.
also interesting is the the speaker like sound,ofcourse the K1000 are speakers,so i don't expect the HD800 to sound like them in this regard,but i do wonder how close they are.
have you ever had the chance to try K1000,and could you please compare them to HD800?
thanks.
sorry for the off the topic...you can PM if you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post
x2.

The HD800 has the ability to transform into almost anything... no, it really doesn't, but it appears that way because it is insanely neutral and transparent. Alan hit the nail on the head. You aren't listening to the HD800. You are listening to the shortcomings in your gear first and foremost and the music follows. Swapping my power cords has revealed more of a difference than ever before -- one configuration yields a neutral and laid back sound and another yields a sibilant and dry sound. They can sound digital, edgy and lacking bass with one amp, and be lush, vibrant and have tons of bass impact with another.

It is going to be very difficult finding the gear that sounds best with these headphones, and frankly I don't think that will ever happen because there will always be better gear. I'm having a very hard time remaining content with the music I hear coming from the HD800 because I constantly hear things I want to improve. These headphones are that much of a technological marvel. And I actually don't hear anything coming from the HD800 at all -- there is no definitive point source for the sound, but it sounds like it's coming from speakers at a 55 or 60 degree angle located in front of you -- certainly not from drivers sitting on your ears.
post #45 of 88
Thread Starter 
I feel that by "talking around" what you all are hearing from the HD800's, without a lot of the hype of recent months, and with real time on your own home systems, we are coming closer to what is really happening with these new cans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda
...
Thanks for the impressions Dave. Reading such tempered words describing the HD6xx's, like "nice", "good", "decent", "average", "not much weight", "not much impact", "not much...texture", "a little hard", is refreshing & revealing at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggf View Post
we're greedy and therefore promiscuous
LOL- trudat!
Quote:
Originally Posted by achristilaw View Post
Let's speak of headphone families.
Audio designers can develop products from a singular viewpoint, with a reference at the top & less-expensive versions down the line. Or they can address a variety of "truths", in hopes of capturing different markets, customer preferences, etc. One of the things I was hoping to glean from my original post was to see what Sennheiser has done with the HD800. It seems that they have either changed their "reference point" (maybe changed designers?), or feel the need to address difference tastes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pearljam5000 View Post
have you ever had the chance to try K1000,and could you please compare them to HD800?
Hey, start your own thread. We're all stocked up here!

(actually, I'd be interested in such a thread also. Maybe include the K70x too?)
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