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Senn HD600/650 fans on the HD800 - owners only! - Page 2

post #16 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumonron View Post
Jpelg, you have over 7000 posts. How can you compare these?

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I couldn't compare a ford escort/fusion to a BMW 5 series...wouldn't do it...why would you want to and what would you hope to accomplish?

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Again, yes the 800 wins in all categories X2 and for the purpose of the OP...

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You wouldn't take a piece of art by Michael angelo and decide to cover it with yellow to "improve" it ....no, hope not....would you take a piece of fine literature and add a chapter to "improve" it...no, I wouldn't. If Jpelg put out an original cd, it is HIS form of expression, he oversaw/approved the mix, decided where it would be recorded so that the acoustics of the studio, church, venue would be reflected in the art, the emotion he expresses is carefully honed by the artist to form a collective body of work that is a song. I listen to jpelg's expression as he intends me to hear it and this is my goal in listening and working to achieve this.
It seems rather strange (and maybe even a tad bit creepy) to me that you would personalize your response to this degree. It's a fair enough question, and one that--quite frankly--were it not for people with 7,000 posts who are brave enough to ask it, probably wouldn't ever be asked!!!

Think about it. You're a long-time HD600/HD650 listener. You like the Senn sound but realize that is has shortcomings. Along comes the HD800 with all of the hoopla associated with it, and supposedly it's in an entirely different league (and priced accordingly), but you haven't yet had a chance to hear these new wonders with your own two ears.

Yet, you've been around long enough to have a healthy does of skepticism, and rightfully so! You've seen a lot of "best ever" proclamations about new headphones--only to later see these same FOTM headphones becoming #1 on the "best sellers" list in the used market at Head-Fi. So now here you are again, having read a lot of the hype, and are now actually thinking about plopping down $1,400 for another pair of headphones that you really don't need as such.

Makes perfect sense to me that you would run a reality check up the flag pole and start a thread that asks for opinions of similarly situated folks who: 1) enjoy the Senn HD600/HD650 sound--no opinions from haters allowed, 2) actually own a pair of HD800--no opinions from those who have done 5-10 minute HD800 auditions under meet conditions, and 3) have actually taken the time to compare them side by side in detail--no opinions based on muscle memory.

We need more threads like this around here. Let's not just take everyone's word that the HD800s are "great" (hey, I think they are too) and "worth it" (again, I think they are, but that's not the point). Let's actually sit down and listen, take notes, and then provide meaningful comparisons against the old benchmarks. This is exactly what we need at Head-Fi.

I'm glad that jpelg phrased his queries with these important provisos. Taking myself as an example, I have a pair of HD600, but I doubt that I've listened to them for more than 5 minutes in the past 5 years. I also have a pair of HD650, and I've listened to them a lot more; probably about 10 minutes in the past 3 years (not counting every time Ray Samuels has forced me to sit down and listen to his latest contraption with his HD650s at the various meets I've attended). Plus, I'm not in Cayman at the moment, where my HD600s and HD650s are, not to mention my reference amps and sources.

My point is that I really shouldn't be expressing much of an opinion about the "differences" between the HD800 and HD600/HD650 because to do so could only cloud the judgment of those who are on the fence about whether to buy a pair of HD800 (at a quite considerable cost, let's not forget).

My gut instinct, based on muscle memory of headphones that I quite like but am no longer very familiar with, is that YES!!!, the HD800 walks all over them. But I can't really say this for sure. Chances are my opinion would be very similar to yours. I just don't see what's wrong with jpelg having asked the question. It's such an obvious question, if you think about it. Maybe even too obvious, and that's why nobody else has had the guts to ask it.

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe you guys are good pals, and you've just giving him a hard time. Or maybe you didn't mean it the way that I took it, and are just trying to express your excitement about the HD800 by saying, "What HD600? What HD650? Fuggetaboutit! You need to get a pair of HD800!!!" Fair enough, I agree with that, but please don't shoot the guy who thinks twice before making a purchase decision, or simply would like to know what people with relevant experience have to say about the differences.
post #17 of 87
I think I qualify. My favorite phones (that I own) are...I mean were...the HD650 with SAA Equinox cable. Source is a RAM-modified Eastsound CD-E5, amp is Grace m902. I can barely go back to my once-beloved 650s now after several hours with the HD800s. I don't have a lot of detail to add to Drumonron or Pabbi1's comparisons, other than that my observations are in line with theirs.

The metaphor that comes to mind for me is the first time I wore glasses as a kid. Everthing was there before but I had no idea what it really looked like. I can "see" much farther into the music, especially on well-engineered CDs (unfortunately the limitations of some of my previous favorites are now painfully obvious). Seeing here not only meaning perceiving more detail in individual instruments and voices, but also more layers of sound.
post #18 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangen View Post
The HD800 is a startling piece of gear, seriously more ambitious than the HD650 in a way that makes it seem a little odd to be comparing them.
Nonetheless, you've done a great job at comparing them. Much of what you've said strikes a chord with me (based, admittedly, on my HD650 memories).

The HD800s remind me of the Qualia 010 in many ways, which someone once described as a window so clear that you don't even realize it's there at first and almost walk into it. They have a way of drawing you into the music and holding you there, making you pretty much forget everything else. But they don't have any of the annoying characteristics of the Qualia 010, either in terms of their sonic signature or the fit issues.

Anyway, my bad. I'm not supposed to talking about the Qualia 010 here...
post #19 of 87
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the great, thought-out impressions, folks. And for keeping it mostly on-topic . Much appreciated, and keep them coming if you have something to offer.

I think my qualifiers are pretty self-explanatory. As far as comparing the more expensive HD800 to it's lesser expensive brethren, my reasons are moreso by way of relation. The HD600/650's are well-known "standards" that I've owned myself, heard in many systems, and have well-formed opinions from over the years (if not my 7000+ posts ).
So I have to wonder if the HD800's are in the same vein as the HD6xx's, or something completely different. By you all comparing the HD800's to them gives me a lot of information, much moreso than giving opinions in the "absolute" sense & universe of all headphones.
post #20 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianS View Post
Pabbi, have you had the chance to compare the hd800 single-ended vs your balanced pair?

Since I have received my HD800, I have been burning them in non-stop and listening quite a bit too. I only compared them to my hd650/zu mobius v1 for a minute (literally) and haven't looked back since. That must go to show you how much better they are to me and all I am listening to is the music.
jpelg, I'm with BrianS. Last 2 days, I can't get enough of my favorite music. They simply never sounded so good. Yesterday, I began using the HD800 in a setup that I thought would work -- computer as source with lossless tracks > HeadRoom Desktop Ultra w/ DPS > HD800 with stock cable -- and I haven't wanted to change anything.

I also own the HD650 w/ Cardas, but I just don't have the urge to switch it into the lineup.

I'm not sure if the absence of the urge to switch to the 650 or any other headphones is an objective criterion, but for me this is a completely new experience. For once, satisfaction.
post #21 of 87
is it possible that the HD800 will make other headphones obsolete.
post #22 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmcmanus View Post
It seems rather strange (and maybe even a tad bit creepy) to me that you would personalize your response to this degree. It's a fair enough question, and one that--quite frankly--were it not for people with 7,000 posts who are brave enough to ask it, probably wouldn't ever be asked!!!


I'm glad that jpelg phrased his queries with these important provisos. Taking myself as an example, I have a pair of HD600, but I doubt that I've listened to them for more than 5 minutes in the past 5 years. I also have a pair of HD650, and I've listened to them a lot more; probably about 10 minutes in the past 3 years (not counting every time Ray Samuels has forced me to sit down and listen to his latest contraption with his HD650s at the various meets I've attended). Plus, I'm not in Cayman at the moment, where my HD600s and HD650s are, not to mention my reference amps and sources.




I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe you guys are good pals, and you've just giving him a hard time.

First, I guess you creep out easily. I stand by my post.

Second, you say, "I have a pair of HD600, but I doubt that I've listened to them for more than 5 minutes in the past 5 years. I also have a pair of HD650, and I've listened to them a lot more; probably about 10 minutes in the past 3 years "....that's not a lot of headtime, dude?...heck, what, can you spare more than 15 mins before a comparison.

Perhaps, you should go to the place where your HPs are before coming here and getting "creeped out".

to Jpelq...nothing personal...it never is personal...great thread so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda View Post
is it possible that the HD800 will make other headphones obsolete.
I believe the HD800 IS a Headphone killer. I wish it was the first headphone I've tried....it would have
saved me a ton of money but jeesh, that wouldn't have been fun at all. Having said that though, the hd650 is
an excellent low cost alternative to the HD800, so it still has it's place.
post #23 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggf View Post
((As an aside, but not to sidetrack this thread, bordins, where does the DX1000 fit between the HD6xx and the new 800?))
The HD650's (w/ Equinox) would be towards the DX1000's. Both sound "warmer" than the HD800's.

I posted some impressions in another thread. > Denon AD2000/5000 vs. JVC Victor DX 1000.
post #24 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda View Post
is it possible that the HD800 will make other headphones obsolete.
That is an excellent question, but, with the hd800, it is severely sapping my motivation to finish the new Blue Hawaii derivative for the he60. That, I feel, is the real measure of the issue - does it make me give up other things?

To wit: The hd600 & hd650 have been stored in a new case (an aluminum wine carrying case, perfect for 2 pair of hd6x0, and assorted cables), put aside, probably to be relegated to amp-build test phones, or sent to a relative overseas. They are all but dead to me, though having served well over the years.

We will see if the he60 meets a similar fate.

AND, I am building not one but two new amps, to see which is more worthy to serve the hd800.
post #25 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda View Post
is it possible that the HD800 will make other headphones obsolete.
Not with such varied impressions at this point. Too many people unwilling to commit (present company excepted, of course )

Only after it is discontinued will a large user-base declare it one of the best of all time, able to keep company with the HE90, R10, K1000, Q010, etc. Prices will shoot up, and you won't be able to afford them anymore.
post #26 of 87
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by feifan View Post
I'm not sure if the absence of the urge to switch to the 650 or any other headphones is an objective criterion, but for me this is a completely new experience. For once, satisfaction.
It is impressions like these that are the most perplexing to me. I mean, you are going along blissfully listening to the the HD6xx's, thinking "Of all the headphones I've heard, these sound the best to me. The most like 'music' should sound."

Then, you hear the HD800's - a headphone that by just about all counts sounds quite different, and you now think "Those are the most like music should sound. I can't be bothered to listen to those old HD6xx's any more."

How does one's reference in music reproduction change so drastically, so quickly?
post #27 of 87
New flavor mistaken for better flavor?
post #28 of 87
I don't think the HD800 makes the HD600 and HD650s obsolete. There has been more premium headphones than the HD600s/650s for years. I understand the association between the 3 is that they are all Sennheiser. The only way I see the HD600/650 becoming obsolete is if the price were to come down a significant amount on the hd800. Even then,I could honestly see some people still prefer the 650s and 600s to the 800s. It would not be a common choice, but the laid back sound may be preferable for some people and some genres.
post #29 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcoheda View Post
is it possible that the HD800 will make other headphones obsolete.
Then again, Ive heard the jh13s are better sounding than the hd800s
post #30 of 87
jpelg probably asked the wisest question ever asked.

This is from Melanie Klein's ENVY AND GRATITUDE:

"The same is true of idealizations of further objects ((headphones, in this case)) and the identification with them, which is often unstable and indiscriminate. Greed is an important factor in these indiscriminate identifications, for the need to get the best from everywhere interferes with the capacity for selection and discrimination . . . one loved object may frequently have to be exchanged for another; for none can come fully up to expectations."

In other words, to answer jpelg, Klein would say that it's because we're greedy and therefore promiscuous, and, in the end, not the best judges of what real music sounds like anyway, because of that greed and perfectionism.
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