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post #751 of 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by suman134 View Post
 

 

 spl ?really ?  have you experienced 100db phone sounding louder then 110db phone ? no right ? spl and db rating are there cuz they want to . you know how they rate impedance ? they write like 15ohm at 1k , you know what that means ? it means it can be different at other frequencies , have a look at your sm64 graph bro . and why are we fighting ? you dont think BAs need amps ? tell me which one needs an amp more ? BAs or dynamics ? Dynamics have a flat and mostly linear impedance through out the spectrum and BAs dont . they are super high at times and super low too like under 5ohm .

  lets start with this , should be , look out for the impedance graph and effect of different resistance on the phone :-

 http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Earphones&page=1&document_srl=12167

 

whoa...

 

fighting over logical and well defined things just isn't cool.

post #752 of 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by suman134 View Post
 

 

 spl ?really ?  have you experienced 100db phone sounding louder then 110db phone ? no right ? spl and db rating are there cuz they want to . you know how they rate impedance ? they write like 15ohm at 1k , you know what that means ? it means it can be different at other frequencies , have a look at your sm64 graph bro . and why are we fighting ? you dont think BAs need amps ? tell me which one needs an amp more ? BAs or dynamics ? Dynamics have a flat and mostly linear impedance through out the spectrum and BAs dont . they are super high at times and super low too like under 5ohm .

  lets start with this , should be , look out for the impedance graph and effect of different resistance on the phone :-

 http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Earphones&page=1&document_srl=12167

 

I am not picking a feud here but from your comments, I think you either do not really know what is impedance or you are completely ill-informed; Or why BAs or any other speaker type have different impedance at different frequencies? Do you mean to say that varying impedance at different frequencies is the reason a BA needs amping? :confused_face_2:

I would still ask you to read because you have a wrong understanding fundamentally.

 

Impedance is the AC component of resistance of the whole driver circuit. It is deemed to vary by sine multiple of the frequency!!!!!!! It doesnt mean you need an amp to run it because it measures say, 80ohms at 12KHz.:blink:

 

Please do read Suman.

post #753 of 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayaflo View Post
 

 

I am not picking a feud here but from your comments, I think you either do not really know what is impedance or you are completely ill-informed; Or why BAs or any other speaker type have different impedance at different frequencies? Do you mean to say that varying impedance at different frequencies is the reason a BA needs amping? :confused_face_2:

I would still ask you to read because you have a wrong understanding fundamentally.

 

Impedance is the AC component of resistance of the whole driver circuit. It is deemed to vary by sine multiple of the frequency!!!!!!! It doesnt mean you need an amp to run it because it measures say, 80ohms at 12KHz.:blink:

 

Please do read Suman.

 

 thats just for you to see , amp is needed to supply the phone with required amount of power which most of the portable players are not capable of , and to hep this either you elevate the whole spectrum or bring it down depending on its impedance .

 in other words the higher the impedance the lower amount of power it needs , it means , a 16 ohm phone will require lesser amount of power them a 8ohm phone . so ie800 is more efficient them se846 , and to be clear , both need an amp , but se846 need it more .

 and in other words , hd800 will require lesser amount of power then your every day phone name it to be ath m50 .

and even if i dont want to quote :-

here :-

 " Custom In-Ear Monitors like the Jerry Harvey JH 13 with around 10 Ohms impedance are best served by a headphone amp with under 1 Ohm output impedance. "

 and this is on shure se846 .

 " There is an advantage, and a disadvantage.  The advantage is that it can become easier to drive. The disadvantage is that it'll require a low-output-impedance source to be run from .  So it'll be source dependent. "

 " Impedance has nothing to do with perceived volume. If playing at the same DB level. A lower impedance device will often pull more current and play louder. It's louder because it's, um, louder, not because it's playing at the same volume with a lower impedance. "

 " The other factor is the relationship between the headphone impedance and the output impedance of the amplifier. As a general rule, the headphone impedance should be 10 times the output impedance of the amplifier. This is a complex subject, but in brief, when the amplifier's output impedance is much lower than the headphone impedance you get good electrical damping of the headphones and they will sound tighter and more articulate. "

 

for your help , find out the output impedance of your device and amplifier . and see if its low enough to drive low impedance earphones or not . "There is a phenonemon known as output impedance in all amplifiers and DAP's and the lower the better, at least when multi-driver balanced-armature IEM's are in the picture.

 

If you use a DAP or amplifier with high output impedance, the frequency response will be all over the place, with as much as 26dB boost in the mids, 15dB valley in the highs, no bass, no volume, etc.! :) "

 

http://en.goldenears.net/1627

 

http://en.goldenears.net/30016  this is a 9ohm on 1k , still dont need an amp ? you think your phone can do .9 ohm ? dream big , but not this big . it clearly needs an amp .

 

so tell me , what is the impedance of se486 ? its a variable not constant . you just cant put a no. to the whole spectrum .

but you can to this .  http://en.goldenears.net/20925 , and this is ie800 .

 I clearly dont want to get neck deep into the technical things , all i know is , when you see an lower impedance and wild impedance swings , you better use an amp .

 

and you will complain , ba dont need an amp , how many mobile phones can drive these at their full potential solely ?

 

 

hmm , i know why to use an amp , use an amp to provide the earphone or headphone with sufficient amount of power . which most of the phone are not capable of .

and let me borrow some quotes .

"I would think that Shure has made the overall impedance curve friendlier than the nominal spec may indicate but there's no way to know at this point. I would guess that both the bass and treble ranges may be higher than 9 ohms. Problem is that it still can't be optimum if they are too different as there will still be non-linearities. If not very different and close to the nominal 9 ohm impedance there may be bass roll off with many sources and this has a crossover besides. Will be interesting to see if and how it was addressed.

 

I think that any IEM not designed to work well with at least a 2 ohm output impedance is a bit of a fail. That's not to say these are that as it may be OK but it remains to be seen. Best case is if they would be around 16 ohms in the bass which would allow it to work pretty well with 2-3 ohm sources and cap coupled devices while keeping the recess in the mids to 1 db or under. I just don't understand why we should even need to be discussing this in a ground up design. "

 

  save your tears or you will be like " man , brought an se846 and its just crap , bad upper mids " .

give it the power it needs and enjoy your phone .

 

 and even to linear impedance phones , amps can help , but dont go all nuts like this guys who quoted in my review , he must have some top end headphones .

 http://www.head-fi.org/products/hifiman-re-400/reviews/11449  . look at the comments . just done sell your kidney for bakoon hpa21 .


Edited by suman134 - Yesterday at 3:12 am
post #754 of 759

dont make a fool out of yourself , use an amp good enough for your phone and enjoy your music .

post #755 of 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by suman134 View Post
 

dont make a fool out of yourself , use an amp good enough for your phone and enjoy your music .


I don't have much experience with BA iems but I find RE400 to be strange.

 

I find it sound better out of my PS Vita (gaming console) and even my phone than with amp.

 

I believe dac/amp should be well optimized for that particular type of load (full size hp/in ear etc).

 

If an amp is optimized for IEMs with variable impedance like BAs, then one must use that instead of one optimized for, say planars.

 

Thus I will never comment or generalise without having heard iem in question with respective amp. Theories may or may not hold up in practice cause there may be other factors into play. (and I don't know about them either)

post #756 of 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibhavp View Post
 


I don't have much experience with BA iems but I find RE400 to be strange.

 

I find it sound better out of my PS Vita (gaming console) and even my phone than with amp.

 

I believe dac/amp should be well optimized for that particular type of load (full size hp/in ear etc).

 

If an amp is optimized for IEMs with variable impedance like BAs, then one must use that instead of one optimized for, say planars.

 

Thus I will never comment or generalise without having heard iem in question with respective amp. Theories may or may not hold up in practice cause there may be other factors into play. (and I don't know about them either)


 yup thats the case , and the source should be good enough , if the source is not good enough or not able to get the best of the file you are playing , what the amp will amplify , i have heard somewhere that ps vita were good at music quality i dont know where . they had really low output impedance .

 you got it right , choosing the right one is important . there are threads for nearly every earphone or headphone , you should consult there .

post #757 of 759
Suman, do you mean to say I need an amp just for impedance matching? Just so you know if I wind a toroidal ferrite core step down, I can increase the load seen by the amp as a factor of turns ratio on the ferrite core. This will push up the impedance 10-20 times and provide dampening as you say to the amp while keeping the frequency response intact. Why then will I need an amp? This way I can match the load and the source and still have enough power to drive any earphone or cone drivers or some planar drivers.
Regards,
~A
post #758 of 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayaflo View Post

Suman, do you mean to say I need an amp just for impedance matching? Just so you know if I wind a toroidal ferrite core step down, I can increase the load seen by the amp as a factor of turns ratio on the ferrite core. This will push up the impedance 10-20 times and provide dampening as you say to the amp while keeping the frequency response intact. Why then will I need an amp? This way I can match the load and the source and still have enough power to drive any earphone or cone drivers or some planar drivers.
Regards,
~A

 

  Yeah thats it , thats the point , if your player can , you dont need an amp , but amps have their thing going for them , some have bigger sound stage , better imaging , lower distortion let it be harmonic or modular , but its not necessary if your player can drive your earphone or headphone to its potential . Its all about driving it , amp or no amp .

post #759 of 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by vDont be fooled intobhavp View Post


I don't have much experience with BA iems but I find RE400 to be strange.

I find it sound better out of my PS Vita (gaming console) and even my phone than with amp.

I believe dac/amp should be well optimized for that particular type of load (full size hp/in ear etc).

If an amp is optimized for IEMs with variable impedance like BAs, then one must use that instead of one optimized for, say planars.

Thus I will never comment or generalise without having heard iem in question with respective amp. Theories may or may not hold up in practice cause there may be other factors into play. (and I don't know about them either)

Hi vaibhav,

Dont be fooled into thinking that its only the BAs that have varying impedances across frequency range and this is why you need an amp...infact its a characteristic of impedance itself to vary across frequency range which all speaker types are subject to because they all work on alternating current.

Chao,
~A
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