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post #556 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibhavp View Post


damnit. curiosity got the best of me and I ended ordering RE400 myself.

don't remember if I was drunk at that time or what.

just received it. 

Ha, your RE400 is probably one of the best IEMs in its price, as far as I've read at least. And good to see you're enjoying it!

Cheers & happy listening!
post #557 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibhavp View Post
 


damnit. curiosity got the best of me and I ended ordering RE400 myself.

 

don't remember if I was drunk at that time or what.

 

just received it. 

Vaibhav, if you can order a fine IEM while drunk, I can only imagine what you could order when sober :biggrin:.

post #558 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post

Vaibhav, if you can order a fine IEM while drunk, I can only imagine what you could order when sober biggrin.gif .

Let me take a guess for fun's sake; he'll probably order the K3003 and regret it, even before receiving his order!
post #559 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShreyasMax View Post


Let me take a guess for fun's sake; he'll probably order the K3003 and regret it, even before receiving his order!

Holy smokes...I'm not an IEM fan but I briefly read the write-up. Looks great and costs ... (but Vaibhav is a rich dude :biggrin: so no worries)

post #560 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post
 

Vaibhav, if you can order a fine IEM while drunk, I can only imagine what you could order when sober :biggrin:.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShreyasMax View Post


Let me take a guess for fun's sake; he'll probably order the K3003 and regret it, even before receiving his order!

 

there is a very good reason why I don't own a credit card (as I once told to Kothganesh in a PM), and am still going on with a lowly debit card that does'nt allow me to buy anything online even if I wanted to.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post
 

Holy smokes...I'm not an IEM fan but I briefly read the write-up. Looks great and costs ... (but Vaibhav is a rich dude :biggrin: so no worries)


no kidding.

post #561 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibhavp View Post
 

 

 

 

there is a very good reason why I don't own a credit card (as I once told to Kothganesh in a PM), and am still going on with a lowly debit card that does'nt allow me to buy anything online even if I wanted to.

Good on you mate. I'm still paying for my purchases.

 

Edit: But some of these purchases have worked out very well.

post #562 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibhavp View Post



there is a very good reason why I don't own a credit card (as I once told to Kothganesh in a PM), and am still going on with a lowly debit card that does'nt allow me to buy anything online even if I wanted to.

Ha ha, but my friend, I'm almost sure you'll own one once you tie the 'knot'! wink.gif
post #563 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibhavp View Post


which one?

The one on timbre ... I just find it absolutely the toughest thing to judge the timbre of some music I hear coz I have not actually heard those instruments straight off from a person playing it in front of me like say a fully free crash ride cymbal, saxophones, trumpets, clarinets and cellos.
And even if I hear them, I will still not be able to comment comparably on their timbre reproduced by a headphone and an earphone due to difference in HRTF involved - one is in-ear and the other is exterior to the ear.
When I ask what is your basis - I mean what is your reference to judging timber - is it from those instruments actually played directly to you or a headphone/speaker setup you have that you base everything on??
post #564 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayaflo View Post


The one on timbre ... I just find it absolutely the toughest thing to judge the timbre of some music I hear coz I have not actually heard those instruments straight off from a person playing it in front of me like say a fully free crash ride cymbal, saxophones, trumpets, clarinets and cellos.
And even if I hear them, I will still not be able to comment comparably on their timbre reproduced by a headphone and an earphone due to difference in HRTF involved - one is in-ear and the other is exterior to the ear.
When I ask what is your basis - I mean what is your reference to judging timber - is it from those instruments actually played directly to you or a headphone/speaker setup you have that you base everything on??


I was in school music group as well as heard un amplified instruments being played in a auditorium in my college.

 

IMHO thats a good way of hearing real instruments as they were funded by respective institutions so instrument quality was good. even if you attend a live concert you hear them through a loud speaker that adds its own colouration.

 

now thats out of the way, my reference was a recent audition of AKG Q701 + Alo Pan am combo. after a few auditions, I have reached to conclusion that for best timber accuracy, match a neutral headphone (akg q701 and beyerdynamic dt 880 are good examples) with a good tube amp (like pan am) that will take edge off them.

 

that will make them polite and less dynamic but good timberal accuracy.

 

as for akg k550 and sennheiser hd518, they are quiet warm sounding and its not hard to make out they don't have accurate timber.

post #565 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibhavp View Post


I was in school music group as well as heard un amplified instruments being played in a auditorium in my college.

IMHO thats a good way of hearing real instruments as they were funded by respective institutions so instrument quality was good. even if you attend a live concert you hear them through a loud speaker that adds its own colouration.

now thats out of the way, my reference was a recent audition of AKG Q701 + Alo Pan am combo. after a few auditions, I have reached to conclusion that for best timber accuracy, match a neutral headphone (akg q701 and beyerdynamic dt 880 are good examples) with a good tube amp (like pan am) that will take edge off them.

that will make them polite and less dynamic but good timberal accuracy.

as for akg k550 and sennheiser hd518, they are quiet warm sounding and its not hard to make out they don't have accurate timber.

what you quote as coloration in a live concert is whole lot different to that you hear from a headphone. this is because in a live concert you are just stepping up your instrument through a dedicated amp and then keeping up that voltage swing with a 25/70/100volt PA line transformer to multiple loudspeakers. most instruments only cover a small band of the audible frequency range which its amp is designed for. hence a guitar amp is different from a bass guitar amp. while when you are listening to music you are actually going through a cycle of recording, compressing and finally reproduction . this is where your reference system comes in which is designed to cover all the instruments and its varied frequencies in the recording with a single driver. stereo is just an iteration.

having the 'edge' taken off with a polite amp i suppose is having the treble rolled off.. though this will subjectively give you a pleasant sound the 'air' around some wind and string instruments can disappear which inherently is its timbre.

I was in my college choir and played for 3 small time jam bands and one that got close to serious but I still think I am miles away from judging the timbre of most instruments because I have not heard them and for those I did hear, I simply do not have the experience. the same note from a cello and a violin at the same pitch might sound different to me but I can't say which is which as I have not heard either live or unplugged.
even if all these are followed and one has the most timbre accurate cans, the quality of the file will matter... for eg I find some 16 bit recordings have cymbals that sound like trash can lids tbh!

But you seem to have a thoroughbred reference system to assess the timbre..... Sounds satisfying!!
Edited by ayaflo - 7/27/14 at 4:51pm
post #566 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayaflo View Post


what you quote as coloration in a live concert is whole lot different to that you hear from a headphone. this is because in a live concert you are just stepping up your instrument through a dedicated amp and then keeping up that voltage swing with a 25/70/100volt PA line transformer to multiple loudspeakers. most instruments only cover a small band of the audible frequency range which its amp is designed for. hence a guitar amp is different from a bass guitar amp. while when you are listening to music you are actually going through a cycle of recording, compressing and finally reproduction . this is where your reference system comes in which is designed to cover all the instruments and its varied frequencies in the recording with a single driver. stereo is just an iteration.

having the 'edge' taken off with a polite amp i suppose is having the treble rolled off.. though this will subjectively give you a pleasant sound the 'air' around some wind and string instruments can disappear which inherently is its timbre.

I was in my college choir and played for 3 small time jam bands and one that got close to serious but I still think I am miles away from judging the timbre of most instruments because I have not heard them and for those I did hear, I simply do not have the experience. the same note from a cello and a violin at the same pitch might sound different to me but I can't say which is which as I have not heard either live or unplugged.
even if all these are followed and one has the most timbre accurate cans, the quality of the file will matter... for eg I find some 16 bit recordings have cymbals that sound like trash can lids tbh!

But you seem to have a thoroughbred reference system to assess the timbre..... Sounds satisfying!!

 

thats why even flagships like hd800 have its limitations.

 

you have to make some compromises to make them sound worthwhile.

 

although I believe that good tube amps have delicate treble instead of rolled off treble that makes highs bearable. although headphones do loose dynamics and attack.

 

to enjoy good dynamics (Indian ocean songs are some of most dynamic songs I have heard), I like to pair warm headphone that has good dynamics (AKG K550 has both) with a solid state amp.

post #567 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibhavp View Post
 

 

thats why even flagships like hd800 have its limitations.

 

you have to make some compromises to make them sound worthwhile.

 

although I believe that good tube amps have delicate treble instead of rolled off treble that makes highs bearable. although headphones do loose dynamics and attack.

 

to enjoy good dynamics (Indian ocean songs are some of most dynamic songs I have heard), I like to pair warm headphone that has good dynamics (AKG K550 has both) with a solid state amp.

I don't see how this is a limitation of the 800 unless I'm misinterpreting you. If I read the above correctly, its the amp that makes the headphone "polite".  In my limited experience, SS amps do have a problem with the 800 and tube amps make it more enjoyable (heck I have three tube amps for the 800 alone). But then again, IMO, I don't see the slight reduction in dynamics as a problem.

 

Love to hear some more on the euphonic versus dynamic conundrum. As an aside, I think electrostats may solve this issue. I was listening to the SR 007 over the weekend with the KGSShv and its in a slightly different league, IMO.       

post #568 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post
 

I don't see how this is a limitation of the 800 unless I'm misinterpreting you. If I read the above correctly, its the amp that makes the headphone "polite".  In my limited experience, SS amps do have a problem with the 800 and tube amps make it more enjoyable (heck I have three tube amps for the 800 alone). But then again, IMO, I don't see the slight reduction in dynamics as a problem.

 

Love to hear some more on the euphonic versus dynamic conundrum. As an aside, I think electrostats may solve this issue. I was listening to the SR 007 over the weekend with the KGSShv and its in a slightly different league, IMO.       

 

what I meant was you can't have everything in one headphone.

 

you can keep 2 amps and 1 hp or vice versa to get almost everything you want. HD 800 changes colours (so do most neutral and transparent hps by the way) according to whats fed into it.

 

feeding it with matching SS perhaps like sennheiser's own amps may make it dynamic and more enjoyable perhaps.


Edited by vaibhavp - 7/27/14 at 11:46pm
post #569 of 925

I must try it out with the amps from Senn. I also seem to remember that one of our members (I think Simran) was planning to buy a BCL for his 800. If so, I would like to hear from him.

post #570 of 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post
 

I must try it out with the amps from Senn. I also seem to remember that one of our members (I think Simran) was planning to buy a BCL for his 800. If so, I would like to hear from him.

 

I am sorry about your wallet if this discussion leads you to next amp purchase.

 

with my limited experience, I believe these 3 things cannot be achieved in same setup (1 hp and 1 amp):

 

1. Dymanics and impact

 

2. timber accuracy

 

3. pleasant to listen to

 

two can be achieved but not all 3. If such system exists, it would be very expensive I believe.

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