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post #24766 of 30402

I would try dh-lab revelation I have the air matrix and I saw very good improvement when switched to this cable on my Wa22. They are very easy to find (on ebay). Power cable also improved the sound in my case I have the decware reference silver which I find is a great value and combined very well with the amp.


Edited by mogour - 4/5/13 at 8:24pm
post #24767 of 30402
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogour View Post

I would try dh-lab revelation I have the air matrix and I saw very good improvement when switched to this cable on my Wa22. They are very easy to find (on ebay). Power cable also improved the sound in my case I have the decware reference silver which I find is a great value and combined very well with the amp.


I'm on the fanatical side of the cable debate. The pro-cable side. Still I feel that it's not just a little change with the right cables. In short, cables are everything. On some Woo products the power cords are even more important in improving the sound than RCAs. Each amp by Woo has it's own inherent power cord scale-up potential to be discovered by the owner.

 

The scale-up inherent power cord potential of the WA 5LE was/is mind-bending.

post #24768 of 30402

Redcarmoose ~

 

What power cord did you select to your satisfaction with the Woo? Being a satisfied D7000 owner, your review left me with a BIG Country kool-aid grin on my face. I'm very close to trying this for myself... maybe. biggrin.gif

post #24769 of 30402

I, too, am curious as to what you found best for the 5LE.

 

Do you have any observations as to what characteristics of a power cord improve the sound on this unit?

post #24770 of 30402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post

 

The scale-up inherent power cord potential of the WA 5LE was/is mind-bending.

 

Mind-bending?  Isn't that a slight overstatement?  A power chord fundamentally changed the sound characteristic of the entire amp?

 

Look, I'll go along with a slight alteration or improvement from a cable or cord-- But this notion that suddenly the entire amp changes-- octaves and harmonics suddenly become available in the music that could never before be reproduced?  That's pretty tough to swallow.

 

I should note that I'm a WA5LE owner, too.  So I'm very interested in this discussion.

 

Have you done any blind a/b comparisons?  I'd love to see 10 blind tests in a row-- and see how many times the power cord is chosen.  

 

I'm not trying to be mean or snarky, I promise.  I just can't see a cable making a massive substantial change.  Cable changes to my ear are a matter of slight incremental changes, not massive overhauls to sound.

 

Spend your money on what you want-- it's a free country.  Lord knows I've thrown thousands at my amps in a effort to try and eek a little more out of them-- I'm as guilty as the next guy.  But I put the money where it will make the largest substantial changes-- tubes, headphones, and music.  

 

I seriously welcome other opinions-- I'm wiling to be convinced.


Edited by reeltime - 4/6/13 at 12:20pm
post #24771 of 30402
I'm convinced that the potentials of a cable are somewhat limited by the internal wirings of your amp/source/speaker device.

I like this belief.
It saves me a lot of money
post #24772 of 30402

just experiment it and you will find that every cables will change the sound. I got 4 different power cable and I ear every sound signature that they have to offer. The most obvious differences was when I bought a silver power cable because (one thing that it was louder at the same volume level and the sound was more 3 dimentionnal and clearer). I don't think that we have to spend thousands to see changes but I think your amplifier as to be transparent (I saw greater differences with my woo wa22 than my home theatre speakers which are outlaw audio lcr and are connected to the same dac).


Edited by mogour - 4/6/13 at 2:28pm
post #24773 of 30402
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeltime View Post

Mind-bending?  Isn't that a slight overstatement?  A power chord fundamentally changed the sound characteristic of the entire amp?

. . .

I just can't see a cable making a massive substantial change.

I, too, am skeptical.  Thus, I am curious as to what he finds to be such a vast improvement and the theory as to why.

post #24774 of 30402

So Far Away

is probably one

of my favorite recording/mixing jobs

sounds killer with my 6SE

sounds even better through my speakers

but

im currently enjoying

it through the woo.

killing hte 20 minutes

of boring half time

in this final 4

game

 

cheers

enjoy the music

with silver cables

or clothes hangers

turn it up

post #24775 of 30402
While chasing ground loops and induced power supply noise from other devices, I found a computer power cord with a ferrite noise block on it worked well to keep interference from my CFL and LED table lamps out of my WA3. I'm not a believer in exotic power supply cables....the power generated from the plant traverses the country on unshielded naked cables of copper, aluminum, and gets switched through buzzing arcing knife switches at every street corner. When it finally comes into the house it rides hundreds of feet of unshielded parallel 14ga romex throughout all the walls with other stuff on the circuit generating spikes and noise. There is nothing clean or sacred about the power at the wall. The most impactful thing you can do is keep the noise out using a power conditioner, filter, or at least a choke. WA3 ties signal ground to chassis ground and it goes through the power cable to earth ground....it needs to be filtered. As for silver unobtanium power cables......what about the other 60 miles of the circuit? rolleyes.gif
Isolation is the key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapiti View Post

I, too, am skeptical.  Thus, I am curious as to what he finds to be such a vast improvement and the theory as to why.

Edited by GrindingThud - 4/6/13 at 5:54pm
post #24776 of 30402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapiti View Post

I, too, am curious as to what you found best for the 5LE.

 

Do you have any observations as to what characteristics of a power cord improve the sound on this unit?

This is a very controversial but after being a long time non-cable believer I came across a Head-Fi member with stuff to try. Needless to say the Woo 5 LE sounded different. I wanted to post only because it was the biggest change I found. Bigger than another CD player or phono pre. The same cable change-outs to my little Woo 3 were so small that, you could kind of hear a little difference but not enough to warrant buying an expensive cable. The other disclaimer I must include is I really haven't tried all that many cables. Also I have moved away from any places to go to meets or purchase more audiophile gear. I would need to take an hour and a half flight to Singapore to make any future purchases, even new headphones.

 

I really am kinda a fanatic, also I am not sure about this whole placebo/reality effect from cables. I am just reporting my changes. So much so, if somebody heard a cable with an amp at a show, then went home and decided that the changes were worth it. They could feel free to spend a considerable amount of money, buying a cable mail-order, and the cables will affect there amp performance at home just like they remember from the show.

 

To answer the above question, my amp was warm and slow ( limited Prat ) with my original set-up. My original set up was everything in my signature minus cables of any high quality type.

Due to maybe the 300bs the sound was still nice. It was buttery and smooth. It was one of those things where you don't now what you  were missing till you find out how great the sound can change.

 

1) Increase of sound-stage and detail in sound stage.

2) Increase in dampening, resulting in an over all tightness of response, giving a 3D detail to the bass tracks, also giving the sound stage an an area of space where the bass tracks could be seen and located.

3) Deeper and more detailed bass response.

4) Harmonic toned reverberation to drum recordings.

5) Sparkle to the high-hats.

6) Over all mental engagement and interlock.

7) Complete detail.

8) Removal of any audio lag.

9) More natural overall integration of all instruments and voices.

 

When I list this, just remember that my system is not the best I have ever heard. These are just the improvements I found in my rig. I am happy with the results I have and feel content not to have spent crazy money for more SQ. What happened was that cables cured all my major issues I had.

To answer your question.

I didn't try a bunch of cables but the "Fat Boy" listed in my sig is what I use. The Epiphany power cord in my sig I would use second if the "Fat-Boy" failed. I'm just posting this so that maybe folks with a Woo 3 don't expect the world to change. Also somebody with a 5 or 5LE could keep trying different cords until they hit gold. They are out there. Another member also changed his umbilical cord from the power supply to the amp, which I believe could also do wonders, but have not done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reeltime View Post

 

Mind-bending?  Isn't that a slight overstatement?  A power chord fundamentally changed the sound characteristic of the entire amp?

 

Look, I'll go along with a slight alteration or improvement from a cable or cord-- But this notion that suddenly the entire amp changes-- octaves and harmonics suddenly become available in the music that could never before be reproduced?  That's pretty tough to swallow.

 

I should note that I'm a WA5LE owner, too.  So I'm very interested in this discussion.

 

Have you done any blind a/b comparisons?  I'd love to see 10 blind tests in a row-- and see how many times the power cord is chosen.  

 

I'm not trying to be mean or snarky, I promise.  I just can't see a cable making a massive substantial change.  Cable changes to my ear are a matter of slight incremental changes, not massive overhauls to sound.

 

Spend your money on what you want-- it's a free country.  Lord knows I've thrown thousands at my amps in a effort to try and eek a little more out of them-- I'm as guilty as the next guy.  But I put the money where it will make the largest substantial changes-- tubes, headphones, and music.  

 

I seriously welcome other opinions-- I'm wiling to be convinced.

I only humbly ask you to try a bunch of cords. When you have come back and post your findings. I'm sure it may be a little dependent upon the issues you may have with the synergy between all components. I totally understand your reserve. You have to note it was not something I even looked into after having the W5LE for one year and the Woo3 for two years.

 

I'm not saying to spend a ton of money I have about $1400 invested in two power cables and one set of RCAs. This was stuff I purchased used so I didn't pay near what they were new.

 

What I'm posting all this for is for folks who never gave it a thought, to at least get a couple power cords and play around. Heck.......go to a meet and borrow every one that you can get your hands on. Bring your whole rig just like at home and spend the day listening to different cords.

 

When you find your mate cord with your W5LE, you come back to this forum and describe about the level of mind-bending. OK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrbington View Post

I'm convinced that the potentials of a cable are somewhat limited by the internal wirings of your amp/source/speaker device.

I like this belief.
It saves me a lot of money

The crazy thing is that science is now in a state of dilution due to how the dogma effects physics understandings. Simply we can not learn more due to our grounded past assumptions. What they say though is that it's the cord from the wall to the amp that makes the difference the most. You can try to rationalize this all you want. Best to just try stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogour View Post

just experiment it and you will find that every cables will change the sound. I got 4 different power cable and I ear every sound signature that they have to offer. The most obvious differences was when I bought a silver power cable because (one thing that it was louder at the same volume level and the sound was more 3 dimentionnal and clearer). I don't think that we have to spend thousands to see changes but I think your amplifier as to be transparent (I saw greater differences with my woo wa22 than my home theatre speakers which are outlaw audio lcr and are connected to the same dac).

Thank-you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapiti View Post

I, too, am skeptical.  Thus, I am curious as to what he finds to be such a vast improvement and the theory as to why.

Read the above and no I have no theory and I'm not looking for one.

post #24777 of 30402
Redcarmoose, I fully respect your views and observations. I like reading people reporting on their findings with stuff like that. I appreciate you doing so.
The very nice high quality cables work very well for you. No matter the reason. Placebo, confirmation bias or actual positive increase in sound quality is irrelevant in the long run. Because it sounds better to you.

What sounds better to me, is upgrading to LCD3 or picking up some HD800s. We both have different wants and needs, as well as different means. And that's ok, that's life. Like I said above, I don't buy into the cable hype. I mean I do a little, but not enough to go spend 500$ on cables. Maybe someday.

All this cable upgrading, headphone upgrading, cartridge upgrading, and source upgrading is fun and addictive.
But what really matters, the only thing that matters, is how does it sound to you?

Cheers.
post #24778 of 30402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrbington View Post

Redcarmoose, I fully respect your views and observations. I like reading people reporting on their findings with stuff like that. I appreciate you doing so.
The very nice high quality cables work very well for you. No matter the reason. Placebo, confirmation bias or actual positive increase in sound quality is irrelevant in the long run. Because it sounds better to you.

What sounds better to me, is upgrading to LCD3 or picking up some HD800s. We both have different wants and needs, as well as different means. And that's ok, that's life. Like I said above, I don't buy into the cable hype. I mean I do a little, but not enough to go spend 500$ on cables. Maybe someday.

All this cable upgrading, headphone upgrading, cartridge upgrading, and source upgrading is fun and addictive.
But what really matters, the only thing that matters, is how does it sound to you?

Cheers.

I do agree with you 1/2 way.

 

At the show where I purchased my Denon AH-D 7000s I had spent the day with the HD 800s. I used them with the standard stock HD 800 cable and a nice $500.00 after market HD 800 cable. I also tried a set of HD 800s that morning with the t-shirt mod. T-shirt mod with the aftermarket cable and t-shirt mod with the stock cable. I also listened to a rare re-worked 180 gram pressing of DSOTM on a $80K vinyl rig while deciding if I wanted the HD 800s. I like the AH-D 7000s better for me anyway. Just the specific sound I'm into more.

 

Your right I do need to try some LCDs. I never have. There could be a dramatic change for the money with those suckers! Cheers!beerchug.gif

 

The member I purchased my Denon AH-D 7000s sold em to me to upgrade to the LCD2s.

 

Still I would bet my bottom dollar that the LCDs with my cable set up would be an improvement. I plan on getting a pair of LCD2s next time I'm on the mainland.


Edited by Redcarmoose - 4/6/13 at 6:53pm
post #24779 of 30402
Amen to d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrbington View Post

Redcarmoose, I fully respect your views and observations. I like reading people reporting on their findings with stuff like that. I appreciate you doing so.
The very nice high quality cables work very well for you. No matter the reason. Placebo, confirmation bias or actual positive increase in sound quality is irrelevant in the long run. Because it sounds better to you.

What sounds better to me, is upgrading to LCD3 or picking up some HD800s. We both have different wants and needs, as well as different means. And that's ok, that's life. Like I said above, I don't buy into the cable hype. I mean I do a little, but not enough to go spend 500$ on cables. Maybe someday.

All this cable upgrading, headphone upgrading, cartridge upgrading, and source upgrading is fun and addictive.
But what really matters, the only thing that matters, is how does it sound to you?

Cheers.[/quote
Amen to that!
post #24780 of 30402
Are not LCD 3s expensive?


I would not buy into the cable hype either unless I tried it first before making simple judgments on behalf of our chance improvements.



You can guess with my post count that I have gone round and round about cables. The great part is I had my two cents here. Should you be curious just try em before passing judgement.


Later
Edited by Redcarmoose - 4/6/13 at 9:30pm
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