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Who here is a high school audiophile? - Page 71

post #1051 of 1191

NOTE PAD ++ FTW

post #1052 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blisse View Post

Whoa, 4000 pages... O_O

And a text editor of course! XD


I'm kidding. I prefer a text editor but that's a bit daunting if you're just learning. Dreamweaver is fine, but sometimes you just want more control over what it gives you. A text editor lets you look at the internals of the code a lot better than Dreamweaver does, but it doesn't really matter. Try out whatever you feel like, :d

dream weaver lets you edit the code portion as well as any other text editor or ide, dream weaver can be usefull as it allows for drag and drop and a more streamline enviroment for small tasks but big things that require complex internal code dreamweaver lets you edit also so its kinda an all in one type ide but i my self like it plain and simple IDEs like notepad ++.

post #1053 of 1191
Dreamweaver isn't at all streamlined though. No professional developer uses the drag and drop features of Dreamweaver, and Dreamweaver offers nothing that an IDE doesn't already do already, except maybe syntax support.

Dreamweaver is a good starting point for newer developers, but nothing more than that. To get good, you have to actually understand the code base and language you're working in, and Dreamweaver doesn't really do anything useful in that regard, except maybe autocomplete and define if it has that. But every decent IDE does autocomplete as well, and if you're working with a good code base you never really need to look up the definition of any code.

At any rate, Dreamweaver is slower to code in, but it is very useful to get people started developing and making websites. A stepping stone really.


Do you even know what you mean by "complex internal code"? Have you even seen that before? lols. Maybe I should've wrote a "basic text editor". Notepad++ is painful to use now though. I prefer Sublime Text.



Anywho, build stuff -> make money -> buy headphones. I wish I started actually coding earlier in high school.
Edited by Blisse - 4/2/13 at 8:04pm
post #1054 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blisse View Post

Dreamweaver isn't at all streamlined though. No professional developer uses the drag and drop features of Dreamweaver, and Dreamweaver offers nothing that an IDE doesn't already do already, except maybe syntax support.

Dreamweaver is a good starting point for newer developers, but nothing more than that. To get good, you have to actually understand the code base and language you're working in, and Dreamweaver doesn't really do anything useful in that regard, except maybe autocomplete and define if it has that. But my IDEs do that as well, and if you're working with a good code base you never really need to look up the definition of any code.

At any rate, Dreamweaver is slower to code in, but it is very useful to get people started developing and making websites.


Do you even know what you mean by "complex internal code"? Have you even seen that before? lols. Maybe I should've wrote a "basic text editor". Notepad++ is painful to use now though. I prefer Sublime Text.

Portable USB key with Cygwin and vim/geany here. Can't live without it.

 

I have nothing against larger IDE suites for specific platform/purposes, but for Dreamweaver....like come on. It's Dreamweaver. It's the guppy of web design. 

post #1055 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blisse View Post

Dreamweaver isn't at all streamlined though. No professional developer uses the drag and drop features of Dreamweaver, and Dreamweaver offers nothing that an IDE doesn't already do already, except maybe syntax support.

Dreamweaver is a good starting point for newer developers, but nothing more than that. To get good, you have to actually understand the code base and language you're working in, and Dreamweaver doesn't really do anything useful in that regard, except maybe autocomplete and define if it has that. But my IDEs do that as well, and if you're working with a good code base you never really need to look up the definition of any code.

At any rate, Dreamweaver is slower to code in, but it is very useful to get people started developing and making websites.


Do you even know what you mean by "complex internal code"? Have you even seen that before? lols. Maybe I should've wrote a "basic text editor". Notepad++ is painful to use now though. I prefer Sublime Text.



Anywho, build stuff -> make money -> buy headphones.

For visual things (which is your front end) i think dream weaver is much faster than flat out texted based editors. As for what I mean by "complex internal code " (I don't like your attitude, might be me but you seem to have quite the demeaning tone) I mean for large lines of embeded programs or what ever I agree a text based editor is better but a web page is not just backround code much of it is visual things and for visual things again i do like dreamweaver's useablity for visual things.

post #1056 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blisse View Post

Dreamweaver isn't at all streamlined though. No professional developer uses the drag and drop features of Dreamweaver, and Dreamweaver offers nothing that an IDE doesn't already do already, except maybe syntax support.

Dreamweaver is a good starting point for newer developers, but nothing more than that. To get good, you have to actually understand the code base and language you're working in, and Dreamweaver doesn't really do anything useful in that regard, except maybe autocomplete and define if it has that. But every decent IDE does autocomplete as well, and if you're working with a good code base you never really need to look up the definition of any code.

At any rate, Dreamweaver is slower to code in, but it is very useful to get people started developing and making websites. A stepping stone really.


Do you even know what you mean by "complex internal code"? Have you even seen that before? lols. Maybe I should've wrote a "basic text editor". Notepad++ is painful to use now though. I prefer Sublime Text.



Anywho, build stuff -> make money -> buy headphones. I wish I started actually coding earlier in high school.

 

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my neighbor uses dream weaver and he is a professional. 

I understand the need to learn the code. But when you are in the professional field your goal is to do things as efficiently as possible. If dream weaver gets the job done.....it gets the job done. If you ask any professional if they would rather code another 50 lines of data, or drag and drop something and go home early...... there is a good chance they will go home early.  

 

 

Dreamweaver and several other styling programs are nothing more than tools at your disposal. Use them or don't use them, but it doesn't make you any more or less of a web designer. 


Edited by Tjj226 Angel - 4/2/13 at 8:31pm
post #1057 of 1191
When I say Dreamweaver, I mean the silly WYSIWYG side of it. The text editor is redundant since it offers no advantages over a basic text editor.

It depends on what kind of professional you're talking about. Someone that has to manage a site over time should be really hesitant to use any tool that complicates the code. If you're just free lancing a design to your uncle or a local owner, you don't really care about the quality of the code - it just has to get a product out there that you like the look of.

So in most instances, the "lazy" web developer would rather get the job done, but someone who understands the value of maintainable code and isn't broken down in a deadline would much rather code the clean 50 lines. However, your example is kind of moot because no developer should randomly drag-and-drop after manually coding.


You're confusing the words designer and developer. A designer would be more of the WYSIWYG side of web development - create the vision of what you want. A developer would actually build it. WYSIWYG greys this area greatly, but most good developers understand that the WYSIWYG side of things is a nightmare when you start running into problems, so they opt for clean, fluid designs that are more easily maintainable.


At Spriggs, it's really hard to take people seriously when they defend Dreamweaver so adamantly. The reason we have these extensive web tools bundled with each browser, like Chrome Developer Tools, and things like Firebug, is that these development tools alongside a clean text editor are much superior to Dreamweaver's environment. Using Dreamweaver is much like a kiddie tool in this sense - once you start using those, Dreamweaver is really lacklustre. I haven't used Dreamweaver in several years though, and my current workspace doesn't support it at all, so yeah.

When you talk about much faster at visual things, it doesn't help that Dreamweaver doesn't render half my visual effects properly. And there are other tools such as Live Reload that automatically render my visuals for me.

And I question your use of "complex internal code" because I'm not sure what internal code means, and I'm not sure how Dreamweaver would help in that sense. Inspection into "complex internal code" is just done in the browser with, say Chrome's right-click Inspect element. Again, Dreamweaver offers no advantages that I can think of. You just seem to be throwing words out there...
post #1058 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blisse View Post

Whoa, 4000 pages... O_O

:d


Yes come join the thread

One of our members cosplayed as Mio smily_headphones1.gif
post #1059 of 1191

I find it rather ironic how many high school students here seem to be able to program. We shouldn't have this kind of talent, should we? :P

post #1060 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by daleb View Post

I find it rather ironic how many high school students here seem to be able to program. We shouldn't have this kind of talent, should we? :P

Web design /=/ program. Not to put the profession down but it's a loose correlation at the very most.

IT classes usually teach these among with other "practical" skills rather than programming though.

post #1061 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blisse View Post

When I say Dreamweaver, I mean the silly WYSIWYG side of it. The text editor is redundant since it offers no advantages over a basic text editor.

It depends on what kind of professional you're talking about. Someone that has to manage a site over time should be really hesitant to use any tool that complicates the code. If you're just free lancing a design to your uncle or a local owner, you don't really care about the quality of the code - it just has to get a product out there that you like the look of.

So in most instances, the "lazy" web developer would rather get the job done, but someone who understands the value of maintainable code and isn't broken down in a deadline would much rather code the clean 50 lines. However, your example is kind of moot because no developer should randomly drag-and-drop after manually coding.


You're confusing the words designer and developer. A designer would be more of the WYSIWYG side of web development - create the vision of what you want. A developer would actually build it. WYSIWYG greys this area greatly, but most good developers understand that the WYSIWYG side of things is a nightmare when you start running into problems, so they opt for clean, fluid designs that are more easily maintainable.


At Spriggs, it's really hard to take people seriously when they defend Dreamweaver so adamantly. The reason we have these extensive web tools bundled with each browser, like Chrome Developer Tools, and things like Firebug, is that these development tools alongside a clean text editor are much superior to Dreamweaver's environment. Using Dreamweaver is much like a kiddie tool in this sense - once you start using those, Dreamweaver is really lacklustre. I haven't used Dreamweaver in several years though, and my current workspace doesn't support it at all, so yeah.

When you talk about much faster at visual things, it doesn't help that Dreamweaver doesn't render half my visual effects properly. And there are other tools such as Live Reload that automatically render my visuals for me.

And I question your use of "complex internal code" because I'm not sure what internal code means, and I'm not sure how Dreamweaver would help in that sense. Inspection into "complex internal code" is just done in the browser with, say Chrome's right-click Inspect element. Again, Dreamweaver offers no advantages that I can think of. You just seem to be throwing words out there...

I think you misunderstood me when i was talking about dreamweaver i was trying to point out that it has some benifits i was in no way defending it or against it for that matter i am merely giving a fair 3rd party opinion. Like i stated earlier I do not use dreamweaver my self I am trying to point out why some would though. As for the complex internal code thing I think you missunderstood/missread what I meant by that, I was trying to point out why a plain text editor is better by saying when you have large peices of code that run the internals of your site ;everything that happens in the backround like tracking and checking for various things depending on the complexity of the site, i was saying those things are better done on a plain editor as dreamweaver cannot help you in those areas of websites creation. I am in no means "throwing words out there". 


Edited by Spriggs - 4/3/13 at 12:42am
post #1062 of 1191
And I'm saying it has no benefits over more normal text editor based workspaces. You're insisting that there are benefits to it - there really are none except for getting normal people into the door to web development, and any that it has, everything else has, but better.

The point is, you've stated these,

"For visual things (which is your front end) i think dream weaver is much faster than flat out texted based editors."

"dream weaver can be usefull as it allows for drag and drop and a more streamline enviroment for small tasks"

which I've said as either a thing for newer developers, or have been succeeded by better development tools.

And this,

"but big things that require complex internal code dreamweaver lets you edit"

which is an implication that Dreamweaver is somehow more useful than other developer tools when dealing with complex code, because otherwise it would be redundant to state that an IDE lets you edit code.



For some reason my school had a "business course" that including HTML, so that would explain it. XD
Edited by Blisse - 4/3/13 at 7:40am
post #1063 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinQY View Post

Web design /=/ program. Not to put the profession down but it's a loose correlation at the very most.
IT classes usually teach these among with other "practical" skills rather than programming though.
Why would someone learn html if they aren't going to learn java and C too? That sounds like a waste of ability to me.
post #1064 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinQY View Post

Web design /=/ program. Not to put the profession down but it's a loose correlation at the very most.
IT classes usually teach these among with other "practical" skills rather than programming though.
Why would someone learn html if they aren't going to learn java and C too? That sounds like a waste of ability to me.
post #1065 of 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by daleb View Post

Why would someone learn html if they aren't going to learn java and C too? That sounds like a waste of ability to me.

HTML is quite different to Java and C. It'd be more useful to pair HTML with PHP or MSQL.

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