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FLAC and ID3 tags in EAC

post #1 of 17
6/3/09 at 3:21am
Thread Starter 
Be careful when using EAC to make FLACs that you make certain the ID3 tag check box is not checked on the compression panel. Even if the ID3 panel has nothing checked on it but the ID3 check box is checked, EAC will still tack some BS tags on the end of the FLAC files. You have to open them in a hex editor to see it.

This is one reason why I'm leery of depending on FLAC as an archive. I know what I'm doing, have everything set up correctly and I know what happens if you check that little check box...but still that damn check box got checked some how, some way. Fortunately, I discovered the error in time before it was an overwhelming mistake.

Something to think about.
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post #2 of 17
6/3/09 at 3:55am
Does it write ID3 tag info to the file? Does the extra stuff cause any kind of a problem? If you open the file in a tag editor like Mp3Tag and have Mp3Tag resave all the tags would it clean up the garbage data?
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post #3 of 17
6/3/09 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeToad View Post
Be careful when using EAC to make FLACs that you make certain the ID3 tag check box is not checked on the compression panel.
This is a good point, and I've posted about it before quite a while ago. The box in question is checked by default, and adds ID3 tags to FLAC files. So the FLAC files not only have their native metadata, but ID3 tags as well. This can cause problems when, for example, transcoding the FLACs to another format such as Apple Lossless. Mp3tag can be used to identify and remove the unwanted ID3 tags.

FWIW, this is a problem with EAC, and not with FLAC.
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post #4 of 17
6/3/09 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaska View Post
Mp3tag can be used to identify and remove the unwanted ID3 tags.

FWIW, this is a problem with EAC, and not with FLAC.

Please tell me how. I can't even see the tags unless I open them in a hex editor and scroll all the way to the bottom.

Most likely they wouldn't affect anything but I thought it was worthy to mention because I know a lot of people are using EAC and FLAC as a sole source to archive their collections.

Wouldn't it suck to find this out later on down the road?
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post #5 of 17
6/3/09 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeToad View Post
Please tell me how.
OK, I will once I have some time to reproduce the steps on my XP machine (I don't want to install Mp3tag on my Vista laptop since I really have no further use for the application).

As I recall, I was able to group the FLAC files that had ID3 tags separately from those that didn't, and then simply used the application to delete the tags from the affected files. This left the native metadata intact.

I will indeed return to this shortly, though, with some specific step-by-step information.
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post #6 of 17
6/3/09 at 12:32pm
Thanks for the warning!
Adding ID3 metadata to FLAC sure may cause problems.
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post #7 of 17
6/3/09 at 12:40pm
I have now finished a rather thorough testing session of the problem in question. I'm posting some pictures of what I did to get around this problem.

First, I ripped the first 6 tracks of an audio CD to FLAC with EAC, with the option to add ID3 tags enabled. Then, I disabled this option and ripped the 4 remaining tracks.

Next, I downloaded and installed Mp3tag, changing no program settings whatsoever, and loaded the freshly ripped FLAC files. Here is a screen shot of the main window, clearly showing which files had ID3 tags:



I then selected the 6 tracks containing the unwanted ID3 tags, right-clicked, and selected Remove Tag:



This effectively wiped the files of all tags, but I knew not to worry based on my similar past experience with this process. I simply clicked the handy Undo Remove Tag button:



And, as the picture below depicts, I was good to go:



I hope this will be of use to somebody.
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post #8 of 17
6/3/09 at 2:07pm
I always output .wav with EAC and then manually FLAC them with Flac Frontend. No problems so far.
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post #9 of 17
6/3/09 at 2:11pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info.

My problem must be unique. I must have accidentally checked the add ID3 tags in the compression panel but the ID3 panel had no checks.

The files produced with the ID3 tags are 1kb or so larger but the tags are not in the header and don't show up in any way in MP3Tag. You have to use a hex editor to see the tags on the very end of the file.

It doesn't seem to affect anything but it does leave open the possibility of a bug while using those files in the future.

Why the author of EAC continues to leave this situation unfixed is baffling.
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post #10 of 17
6/3/09 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by apatN View Post
manually FLAC them with Flac Frontend
Somebody out there actually installs and uses that thing ?
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post #11 of 17
6/3/09 at 2:23pm
I uncheck 'add ID3 tag' and have the following command line options: -5 -V -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s

I haven't had any isuues
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post #12 of 17
6/3/09 at 2:52pm
Thread Starter 
"The issue" was entirely my fault but I thought it would be good to point it out because if I made that mistake, I'm sure others can as well. Plus, if you're archiving with EAC and you don't have things set up just so...what are you gonna do when you need a hard copy?

Redundancy. Always.
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post #13 of 17
6/3/09 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaska View Post
Somebody out there actually installs and uses that thing ?
Yep. Very handy.
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post #14 of 17
6/3/09 at 10:44pm
I am not sure I am following this completely. If you rip them with the ID3 tags, you actually could lose SQ due to compression? What if you rip them without adding the ID3 tags and then tag them AFTER the fact? Still lose that SQ? Sorry if it is a noob question.
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post #15 of 17
6/3/09 at 11:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dat_Dude View Post
I am not sure I am following this completely. If you rip them with the ID3 tags, you actually could lose SQ due to compression? What if you rip them without adding the ID3 tags and then tag them AFTER the fact? Still lose that SQ? Sorry if it is a noob question.
You won't lose any sound quality. The audio data will still be in FLAC format and doesn't appear to be harmed.

The issue is that adding any kind of ID3 info to a FLAC file is out of spec for the FLAC format. FLAC files use Vorbis comments, a different tagging format than ID3. So technically a FLAC file with any kind of ID3 info is corrupted and out of spec.

The concern would be that the out of spec FLAC file could conceivably cause problems for some media players and transcoders.

I did a cursory check of my FLAC files using Mp3Tag to see if any had ID3 info in them. None did even though some of the FLAC files have been ripped with EAC. All of my FLAC files have had their tags edited using J. River Media Center and that software may have removed any errant ID3 tags from the FLAC files if there were any errant ID3 tags. I haven't looked at any of the FLAC files with a hex editor yet.
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