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JH Audio JH-13 PRO impressions thread - Page 289

post #4321 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkimo View Post
Seems JH 13 PRO will use the Transparent one.
I just find the picture.
I'm really hoping they aren't just shipping it in the transparent case. It's fine for portable use and whatnot, but the carbon case looks much sleeker and expensive. If mine show up in a tiny case I must say I will be annoyed because I have plenty of tiny IEM cases alraedy.
post #4322 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab_ba View Post

Another audiophile term that now makes some sense: speed. I really appreciate the way the sound just stops. The offset transients, especially with drum programming, is just stunning and beautiful. The instant of silence after a hit is so sharp and clear. I can now now tell how other phones I’ve heard have been more “muddy” than these. Another facet of speed: one of the most remarkable things about the 13’s for me is the way the music really wells up and hits you when the band kicks in. The dizzying abruptness with which they render dynamics in the music - onsets and offsets - is gorgeous. All the “dynamic compression” that’s been going on with music mastering lately is somewhat counteracted by the ability of these headphones to represent a big dynamic range.
Great review! I believe these kind of thorough reviews, from someone without the extremely extensive background with a variety of different equipment, can be especially useful. A lot of people who are considering the JH13 are coming from a more moderate background of experience, and I imagine they can probably relate more easily to your comments.

Your observation about the speed of the drivers is one of the qualities of the JH13 that I find most enticing, not having heard them. It takes something that IEM's naturally do very well, and brings it to another level, furthering the maturity of the class of IEM's as a legitimate transducer. Instead of IEM's always being framed as being the ugly step-child of headphones or speakers.

Quote:
My habit when I get new gear is to revisit my favorite albums, to have new experiences with them, plumb them for even more richness and nuance, and also get as objective as I can about the merits of the new device. At first I listened closely to Radiohead’s Kid A, Feist’s Let It Die, Wilco’s Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, Count Basie and Oscar Petersen, and the Tokyo String Quartet’s recordings of Beethoven’s Quartet Op. 59. No. 3. For each, the musicality and the resolution surpassed anything else I’ve heard. What I really appreciate is the ability to resolve new details in the background. Instruments that had been part of the “soundscape” are now clearly discernible for what they are: a bass line, a drum brush, a quietly harmonizing vocalist. Amazing. This is without any detraction from the foreground - not distracting, just more depth than I have heard before.
It often seems like in audio you're always trading one thing for another. For example, I loved the way the W5000 could accomplish the separation and imaging that you're referring to here, but I felt it gave up something in the PRaT department to do it. I love Grado's for being able to keep the PRaT, while feeling they lose out in soundstage, etc...

It really seems that the JH13 doesn't have a critical flaw that I associate with most full-sized headphone choices under $1000.

Quote:
Are they perfect? Well, I think I allowed myself to develop unrealistic expectations. I believed everything would sound so riveting and immersive that it would be hard for me to focus on work, etc while I was listening. Though there are times that I do get drawn in to something that’s astonishing and clear, and whenever I turn my attention to them, they are marvelous. But for the most part I have no problem trucking along at whatever I’m doing with the 13’s just singing sweetly to me in the background at a low/moderate volume.

Another overblown expectation I had is that everything would sound good. That the music I love would sound different. That new music would always sound compelling. That poor-quality recordings would somehow sound just fine. Though each of these things may be true to an extent, none are overwhelmingly so. It is still the same music - I can just hear it now with greater clarity and musicality than I’ve experienced so far.

For anyone who (like me) is fairly inexperienced with high-end audio, a warning: there are lots of terms flying around on this forum that can create overblown expectations. Things like the 13’s are “infinitely” better than high-end headphone X, or the difference is “night and day”, or the 13’s “demolish” X. Those terms led me to have some unrealistic expectations. The 13’s demolish my apple earbuds. They are infinitely better than not listening to music. They are merely a dramatic improvement over other IEMs and cans I’ve tried.

Some questions about audio quality I look forward to finally being able to answer, thanks to my 13’s: Can I tell the difference between lossless encoding and 256+ kbps MP3 files? Can I tell the difference between my Hornet and Pico amps when amping my ipod? Can I hear a difference between my iPhone and my Pico DAC? Any differences I’ve thought I’ve heard in the past have been fleeting and not convincingly reproducible. It will be fun to see if all that lossless encoding I did was worth the disk space
So glad that you included these thoughts. I think calibrating expectations is an important part of any review. It's especially useful if you're not a long-standing veteran of reviewing, as I think those that are more deeply involved in the hobby are often lacking this particular kind of perspective.

Your point about hoping that everything would sound good is one of the rude awakenings of this hobby. So many pieces of music DO sound so much better with higher end equipment. However, the realization of recording quality forces you to realize that there are significant factors that are out of our control when it comes to ultimate sound quality. The use of flowery language to describe differences in dramatic ways is very controversial, especially when we're talking about amps/sources/cables.


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So, am I finished with purchasing audio gear? I am not someone who’s interested (right now at least) in collecting a range high-end gear so I can appreciate the relative merits of each. I’d rather have one setup that works great. For now, it is an awesome combination to be able to keep my JH|13’s and my iphone 3GS in my pocket, for immersive, pristine listening anywhere, anytime. And, my desktop rig (mac book to Pico DAC/amp) sounds great to me. Maybe one day I will upgrade something. Though I can’t imagine what that might be, I do notice there is a lot of empty space inside my JH|13 shells... who knows, maybe Jerry will figure out some electronic thingumajig worth putting in there. Till then, I believe I have reached my audiophile destination...
I'm the same way. Having been around for at least a little while in this hobby, I've come to realize that an "end game" might be approaching for me as a result of technological innovation. I'm probably at least a year away from it, but I see myself eventually purchasing something like the JH13's and the HiFiMan and waving goodbye from head-fi.


*Also, I think you should consider posting this as a separate thread. It's warranted, IMO.
post #4323 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomikPi View Post
I'm really hoping they aren't just shipping it in the transparent case. It's fine for portable use and whatnot, but the carbon case looks much sleeker and expensive. If mine show up in a tiny case I must say I will be annoyed because I have plenty of tiny IEM cases alraedy.
I was on the phone with Jamie another day, she mentioned that the transparent case is the only case they are using now, they replace all the cases with it. hope this helps.
post #4324 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring ME TO Life View Post
I was on the phone with Jamie another day, she mentioned that the transparent case is the only case they are using now, they replace all the cases with it. hope this helps.
I guess I don't really have a choice since they're forcing it on us. I want the JH13 for the SQ obviously so it's not the end of the world. But I'm not going to say I'm not pretty annoyed that they changed it from a classy, spacious case with enough room for DAP and amp etc to a cheapo $10 case.
post #4325 of 10372
I received my JH13 for three days now. I love the smaller clear otter box. For those of you who may think the carbon fiber looks better, I can tell you that the otter box is nearly indestructible in construction. I notice that there is a nice rubber seal at the opening which makes it water proved if it fell into water. I much prefer the smaller case than the larger carbon fiber case. I felt very safe with the JH13 inside it.

In terms of iem history, I came from Etymotic ER-4s (3 years) and UE 10pros (6 years). I was able to demo the JH10x3, JH11, and JH 13 at the LA meet and was very impressed with the sq. So I know what to expected when I receive the JH13. I burn the JH13 for a few hours after I received it just to make sure there is no burn in problem at first listening. Since then I have put about 30 hours into it and my initial impression is that it is clearly a much more enjoyable iem compare to my UE 10pros and er-4s. However, I don't think I'll sell my R-10 (if I have one that is but I did listen to one) or my HD-800 (I do have one). I feel the sound staging effect are still better with those highend cans especially for home listening. But the JH13 is everything that most people reported here to be, tight, clear, personal, and sometimes disappearing. I do however feel the JH13 seems to have more color than my UE 10pros in that the UE 10pros is totally flat and natural and as such is sometimes rather boring when compare to the JH13.

The UE 10 Pros is an excellent monitor though. I have two pairs of UE 10pros and I recently tried to sell one set and to my surprised I have more than 5 offers to buy my UE 10pros. I didn't expect that for a custom iem. I was going to sell my second set but now I change my mind. I decide to keep my ue10 pros because it is such a different set of phone. But I did let go a bunch of phones (GS1K, ALO-HFI-780, HD 600, Triple Fi 10, and UE 10pros) to get this one. I am very happy now because I don't have to carry my ESW10jpn on trip now. The JH13 is much samller in size.

As audiofile, we like to improve our toys, so after I receive my JH13, I examine the interior with a magnifiying glass and saw all those tiny wires that connect the drivers together and I thought what if they use some better interconnect between those drivers, will that make it sound better? Like pure silver, or OCC copper etc.
and then of course, the stock cable has a very small V which makes it slightly uncomfortable to wear. Beside, I felt an upgrade cable is definitely needed for anyone who enjoy tweaking their gears. At least for me I want to try it with a different cable. Jamato, I understand you have made a few cables for the JH13, were you able to improve on the sound? If so, how is it compare to the stock cable?

I felt the sq is upclose and personal. Very forward and therefore very involving. I am curious if a good occ copper recable will give a warm touch to it since it is already bright enough. One more observation, I listened to it in the first hour and I did notice a slight sibilance but is now become somewhat minimal. I will keep paying attention to it in the next few days to see if the sibilance is totally gone.

I did not think I made the wrong pruchase. I travel a lot and it will give me many hours of fine listening. But I really don't felt that this is the best phone bar none as some have implied here. May be one can say that this is one of the best phones but I doubt if it could replace some of the top phones as someone may have reported here. Hmn, L3000 may be, but not the R-10.

I will give more observation later, but now I am starting my search for a nice cable, piccolino, anyone?
post #4326 of 10372
I, along with Duggeh, who is staying with me, spent a few hours today comparing the universal JH13s to my custom JH13s, trying to get an idea of the differences. I had a lot of problems trying to recreate the sound of my customs, and even though I had a seal after much messing with the foamies and even trying cutting them down at one point, I had to press them into different and very uncomfortable angles to get what I wanted to hear. I basically heard multiple versions of the JH13s using the universals, depending on the twists and turns and very tiny shifts I made angling them in. I know Duggeh also experienced this. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if you have a chance to hear the universals, I'm not sure what you're hearing. You'll get an approximation of the capabilities, but even when at the best I could get them, I'd still say that it was only 80% there.
post #4327 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalo View Post
May be one can say that this is one of the best phones but I doubt if it could replace some of the top phones as someone may have reported here. Hmn, L3000 may be, but not the R-10.
I will not be selling my R10s or my O2s.
post #4328 of 10372
I am using some 28 gauge oxygen free long crystal copper tonearm wire that is splendid. Everything is better. They sounded horrible at first. I have never heard a cable change so much. At first there was no bass, I mean none and I have never experienced this before and I used to manufacture IC's, which required many trials and errors before I got what I wanted. Internal wiring, sure that would be nice to change out but just a wee bit difficult unless JH would agree to use some sent in. I would use the 32 gauge ofc long crystal tonearm that is even better, that I also have here and it would fit.

I am listening with a very special amp right now and the sound is stunning.
post #4329 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post
I am using some 28 gauge oxygen free long crystal copper tonearm wire that is splendid. Everything is better. They sounded horrible at first. I have never heard a cable change so much. At first there was no bass, I mean none and I have never experienced this before and I used to manufacture IC's, which required many trials and errors before I got what I wanted. Internal wiring, sure that would be nice to change out but just a wee bit difficult unless JH would agree to use some sent in. I would use the 32 gauge ofc long crystal tonearm that is even better, that I also have here and it would fit.

I am listening with a very special amp right now and the sound is stunning.

Jamato, do you feel with the JH13, a copper material is better than silver or silver/copper combo? As in SXC from ALO? This is mainly because I find the sq to be slightly bright especially when I want to turn up the volume. So my thinking is that if I can find some very fine oxgyen free copper for a cable it will smooth the harxh corner out a little bit. Give it a smooth warm touch but retain the crisp and forward signature. Thanks for your input.
post #4330 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomana View Post
I will not be selling my R10s or my O2s.
If you do, make sure you let me know first
post #4331 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomana View Post
I, along with Duggeh, who is staying with me, spent a few hours today comparing the universal JH13s to my custom JH13s, trying to get an idea of the differences. I had a lot of problems trying to recreate the sound of my customs, and even though I had a seal after much messing with the foamies and even trying cutting them down at one point, I had to press them into different and very uncomfortable angles to get what I wanted to hear. I basically heard multiple versions of the JH13s using the universals, depending on the twists and turns and very tiny shifts I made angling them in. I know Duggeh also experienced this. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if you have a chance to hear the universals, I'm not sure what you're hearing. You'll get an approximation of the capabilities, but even when at the best I could get them, I'd still say that it was only 80% there.
boomana,

Thanks for sharing.

Your experience with the "Universal 13's" is consistent with JH Audio assertions that: the [custom] JH13's, with longer tips, penetrating closer to the eardrum, "remove ear canal geometry variations from the listening equation".
Result: more consistent SQ rendering, across the entire customer base.

Stands to reason then, that SQ on the Universals,
would vary significantly, as a function of tip placement, even with a good seal.
post #4332 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomana View Post
I, along with Duggeh, who is staying with me, spent a few hours today comparing the universal JH13s to my custom JH13s, trying to get an idea of the differences. I had a lot of problems trying to recreate the sound of my customs, and even though I had a seal after much messing with the foamies and even trying cutting them down at one point, I had to press them into different and very uncomfortable angles to get what I wanted to hear. I basically heard multiple versions of the JH13s using the universals, depending on the twists and turns and very tiny shifts I made angling them in. I know Duggeh also experienced this. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if you have a chance to hear the universals, I'm not sure what you're hearing. You'll get an approximation of the capabilities, but even when at the best I could get them, I'd still say that it was only 80% there.
I agree - I've been saying that same thing since CanJam - the universal fit demos likely wont sound the same as the actual custom fit product.
post #4333 of 10372
Got mine back today because of refit. It took me 25 days . But now they fit like gloves. Really love them.
LL
post #4334 of 10372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalo View Post
Jamato, do you feel with the JH13, a copper material is better than silver or silver/copper combo? As in SXC from ALO? This is mainly because I find the sq to be slightly bright especially when I want to turn up the volume. So my thinking is that if I can find some very fine oxgyen free copper for a cable it will smooth the harxh corner out a little bit. Give it a smooth warm touch but retain the crisp and forward signature. Thanks for your input.
I have never liked silver plated copper though some is much better than others. I prefer long or mono crystal copper or correctly done silver. What I am using now is the long high purity copper multiple strand.
post #4335 of 10372
^^ I would tend to agree there; I have never heard SPC that I have liked. i'm loving UP-OCC silver on mine; but building a UP-OCC copper one too to see if I like that better. I generally prefer copper for headphone cables, but enjoy silver IC's, but this silver seems to suit JH13 very well. something about SPC sounds incongruous to me; like not all the music falls together coherently. YMMV
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