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JH Audio JH-13 PRO impressions thread - Page 130

post #1936 of 10479
I don't know how different is your modified ER4 but the JH13 does everything better (more accurate highs, much much better midrange, tighter bass, better soundstage, better imaging, etc.) than a stock ER4...there is no really a comparisson there, is like comparing a Ferrari with a Pontiac.
post #1937 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
I wonder what might be the difference between the JH 13 and universal IEMs of the likes of ER-4 and Audéo. My modified ER-4P and my Audéo – both exclusively used with the iAudio 7 and carefully equalized by its semi-parametric equalizer – leave barely any wishes to my ears.

What sort of improvement does the JH 13 provide, apart from a more even/extended frequency response? Higher resolution and detail? Less harmonic distortion?

BTW, what's the technical justification for a 3-way/6-driver IEM compared to a full-range balanced-armature driver design? (Maybe I should ask the developer; after all Etymotic Research denies a technical advantage, and I''m skeptical as well.)
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At least between the ES3X and ER4's (IMHO), like worlds apart, different universe, another league, apples and oranges. The ER4's are good, but it's probably the wrong comparison. I sometimes pop in my ER4's and try for a listen, but musically speaking, the ES3X--and from this thread, the JH-13's too--provide a much clearer presentation of the intentions of the artist and engineer. They are just more life-like, and what you'd experience in the studio/recording venue.

I do wish that Etymotic would take note and provide us with a new Ety reference level product.
post #1938 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricey20 View Post
The fit is good, thankfully that seems to be a common theme too They are surprisingly just as comfortable as my ES3X with the heat tips. So far, they do sound quite different than the ES3X. I personally like them both
I do like the fact the JH13 is slightly less sensitive than the ES3X. I couldn't use the ES3X with my Jade amp because it hummed like crazy, not so with the JH13. The JH13 sounds awesome out of the Jade
That's good! To me, the heat sensitive tips seem to "mold" to the shape of my ears as they warm up, providing a nice glove like experience. The fit improves as they heat up. My ER4 molds (Style No. 34) are not quite as compliant, even though they are made from soft silicon-like material, and they are not quite as snug (maybe just the difference in the mold itself).
post #1939 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post
Oh noooos. I like the HP-2 more than the O2 - my first doubt about the JH13... It would be ok for me as long as the JH13 is like the O2 but without the highs rolling off, without the O2 laid back sound (I'll say it a bit boring), and without that e-stat sound which seems too light weight and too simulated sounding. (BTW, these are just my tastes I think the O2s are great but not for me)

Please say that's what you meant
Well, it's hard to compare the JH13Pro to a current full size headphone because I'm not sure one exists to compare to the JH13Pro. Maybe it's more like an O2 but on a KGBHSE maybe, without the "roll off, laid back or e-stat sound" you speak of (see quote). I can easily compare the ES3X to an HD800 or HP-1000, or the UE11pro to a PS-1 or modded D5000/7000 (better than Edition 9), but I'm almost at a loss about the JF13Pro = x full size phone.

I have briefly heard R10 and HE90 and don't have enough experience to say if that would be a match. I think the JH13Pro are more transparent and not at all "closed can" sounding like the R10 occasionally sounded in the mid-bass. I think the JH13pro bass is better defined than the HE90. So...
post #1940 of 10479
Here is some pics of my JH-13 Pro's. The comfort is awesome and the fit is perfect. There are no bubbles or imperfections in the molds and the case is perfect, no scratches or smudges. I will try to post my thoughts when I have time to remove these from my ears to continue on with life!!!
LL
LL
LL
post #1941 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by belac View Post
Here is some pics of my JH-13 Pro's. The comfort is awesome and the fit is perfect. There are no bubbles or imperfections in the molds and the case is perfect, no scratches or smudges. I will try to post my thoughts when I have time to remove these from my ears to continue on with life!!!
Very nice !

Finally another color than blue or black.
post #1942 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricey20 View Post
I do like the fact the JH13 is slightly less sensitive than the ES3X. I couldn't use the ES3X with my Jade amp because it hummed like crazy, not so with the JH13. The JH13 sounds awesome out of the Jade
On that note, has anyone tried pushing the sensitivity angle, say with an Ety S adapter?
post #1943 of 10479
OK, so who is going to be the first to put a balanced cable on these suckers!
post #1944 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfillion View Post
Very nice !

Finally another color than blue or black.
This is the color that Jerry has on his personal set. When I went by JH Audio a few weeks ago he showed me this color and it seemed to go with my iMod case and the color of my P-51. I'm very pleased with how they turned out and the sound is so much better than they look and I think they look awesome.
post #1945 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim View Post
That's good! To me, the heat sensitive tips seem to "mold" to the shape of my ears as they warm up, providing a nice glove like experience. The fit improves as they heat up. My ER4 molds (Style No. 34) are not quite as compliant, even though they are made from soft silicon-like material, and they are not quite as snug (maybe just the difference in the mold itself).
x 2 on the text in bold. After all this time I'm still very pleasantly surprised every single time I use my ES3X's at just how comfortable they are. They have longer ear tips than other sets I've seen around (on the web), but after about a week the comfort level was staggering.

Like I said before there's a chance the JH13 may be a little better, but I'm pretty confident they are not that much better. The SQ I'm getting from just the HP out of my 160gb iPod Classic & 256 mp3 files is truly remarkable. Glad to hear, though, that so far the ES3X's are still up there with the JH13.

On the subject of bass and treble, I really appreciated just how good the ES3X bass was once I rediscovered some of the music I didn't listen to much anymore as I was getting bass overload/ 'discomfort' using the W3's & SE530's on these recordings. The UM3X's come closer to the ES3X bass performance, but the ES3X just do it more accurately. Basically, bass that extends REALLY low in the recording is clearly defined. Any more bass (for me) and the end mix would be terribly spoilt. And this very low bass frequencies are quite 'enveloping'.

Very similar thing with the treble response where there are only a few CD's/ pieces of music -- mostly classical-- where I wish for just a tad more treble, only to find that the ES3X on the rest of my 'large' music collection delivers what I'd regard as perfect treble, and find myself often thinking 'thank God there isn't (even just a little bit) more of it'.

In total I had to have 4 sets until all was 'perfect' with my ES3X's and, from these, only the 3rd set had wrong bass & treble reproduction.
post #1946 of 10479
Yeah, when they are in my ears, I don't really care about the look or the color.
post #1947 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer View Post
Well there are a lot of factors at work. For instance, two drivers might have an identical frequency response given a constant signal. But music, or any recorded sound is not a constant signal. Therefore the speed at which the driver can react to the changing signal is crucial to accurate reproduction. The JH13 has one of the fastest reactions I have ever heard, and thus it is extremely detailed and accurate sounding.

A slow sounding headphone often has bass that would be described as "woolly" or "soft", which is the result of bass waveforms blending together, rather than coming across as unique, separate sounds. Hence, with better speakers and headphones, it is easier to follow the rythmic bass timing of many types of music, resulting in a more involving, life-like listening experience.

This is just one example of an aspect of sound reproduction beyond frequency response that is important to great, life-like sound. Trust me, if sound playback were determined only by FR, audiophiles and different listening products would cease to exist. There would be one generic design for speakers and headphones that would completely dominate the market, and likely cost very little.


Anyway, the JH13 is not a bad choice for on the go listening. It still sounds WAY better out of my Clip than my Shure 530's do. What I've been saying is that because the JH13 is so precise, it allows you to hear the changes in downstream gear more easily. They scale better with better equipment.

To go back to the analogy I made earlier, an F1 car on rain tires will still go much faster down the track than any other type of car, but with slick tires it could go even faster. The JH13, even from a portable player, sounds better than nearly every headphone/earphone, but from a better system, it can sound even better.

Or to put it another way, let's say the JH13 is a 95% efficient music delivery device, and a Shure SE530 is 75% efficient. Likewise, let's say a Pico DAC/Amp playing FLAC is 90% efficient, and Clip playing FLAC is 70% efficient.

JH13/Clip = .95 * .7 = .665
JH13/Pico = .95 * .9 = .855 (net gain = .190)

SE530/Clip = .75 * .7 = .525
SE530/Pico = .75 * .9 = .675 (net gain = .150)

Granted, this is an oversimplified way of viewing things, and the numbers are essentially arbitrary, only present to make the demonstration, and not a precise rating of the devices in question. As you can see, having a more efficient device in the JH13 allows you to better realize the gains made when the other item in the chain is improved.
I think that's a pretty good analogy Iron_Dreamer. And an interesting calculation.

FR is only part of the equation, along with constant signals versus transients, or sine wave reproduction vs. real music. Lots of transducers produce flat FR, but sound like heck when playing music. I don't know if this is a valid analogy, but the speed of a musical transducer ("rise time" to use an amplifier term), helps determine its overall "resolution." The effect on our hearing is improved detail, smooth, silky highs, and highly individuated instrumentation. Hence, increased "real" resolution vs. hyped FR through equalization giving the impression of resolution. Complex passages are more nuanced, and you can follow an individual performer playing or singing (for example in an orchestra or chorus) more easily without hearing strain.

(As an aside, isn't it interesting that the better the "big rig" music system, the fewer adjustments, and no tone controls? Only the music and the balance the musicians and engineers intended!)

The speed of the transducer also determines how well it recovers so as not to "ring" or overhang after the signal stops. Loudspeaker manufactures go to extreme lengths to decrease the overall mass of the driver to minimize these effects (or make BIG motors and huge amplifiers to control its electromotive mass e.g. subwoofers).

By the way, the speed of a given transducer also correlates to its overall distortion characteristic and spectrum (fundamental and resulting harmonic progression). So, we're probably hearing the effects of reduced overall distortion to boot! Lower distortion = increased resolution? Just guessing on that, but it makes sense.

This makes these new IEMs (JH13-Pro and the ES3X) seem like magnifying glasses into the performance, as well as emphasize differences in amplification and source material.
post #1948 of 10479
Is there any way to protect the custom art from peeling off?
post #1949 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanc85 View Post
Is there any way to protect the custom art from peeling off?
Some sort of clear coat should protect the art from coming off!! I don't think anybody is sure if one is being used before they are shipped or not.
post #1950 of 10479
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post
x 2 on the text in bold. After all this time I'm still very pleasantly surprised every single time I use my ES3X's at just how comfortable they are. They have longer ear tips than other sets I've seen around (on the web), but after about a week the comfort level was staggering.

Like I said before there's a chance the JH13 may be a little better, but I'm pretty confident they are not that much better. The SQ I'm getting from just the HP out of my 160gb iPod Classic & 256 mp3 files is truly remarkable. Glad to hear, though, that so far the ES3X's are still up there with the JH13.

On the subject of bass and treble, I really appreciated just how good the ES3X bass was once I rediscovered some of the music I didn't listen to much anymore as I was getting bass overload/ 'discomfort' using the W3's & SE530's on these recordings. The UM3X's come closer to the ES3X bass performance, but the ES3X just do it more accurately. Basically, bass that extends REALLY low in the recording is clearly defined. Any more bass (for me) and the end mix would be terribly spoilt. And this very low bass frequencies are quite 'enveloping'.

Very similar thing with the treble response where there are only a few CD's/ pieces of music -- mostly classical-- where I wish for just a tad more treble, only to find that the ES3X on the rest of my 'large' music collection delivers what I'd regard as perfect treble, and find myself often thinking 'thank God there isn't (even just a little bit) more of it'.

In total I had to have 4 sets until all was 'perfect' with my ES3X's and, from these, only the 3rd set had wrong bass & treble reproduction.
Yah, it wouldn't surprise me a bit that the JH better the ES3X in some way. I'm hypothesizing, but the multiplicity of drivers may contribute to extension and maybe resolution. JH used an interesting approach in his design, not unlike some other manufacturer's who utilize multiple drivers in a line array.

BTW, my reworked ES3X sounded so much better than the originals! Fit really does make a difference. (I also noted that the reworked pair were slightly different including the filters, and isolation of the crossover (no more ringing when you tap on 'em!)
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