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JH Audio JH-13 PRO appreciation thread - Page 593

post #8881 of 9141
4/12/12 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nc8000 View Post

Tosh !!!!
There has been nearly nothing but comments confirming that different upstream components sound differently and not because they are all defective


Comments, anecdotes and impressions do not constitute evidence. Scientifically-sound controlled testing constitutes evidence, as demonstrated in the wealth of literature and published studies regarding this very topic (in which no differences could be observed).

 

This is especially the case given HRTFs, compensatory biological mechanisms related to our hearing, and the shortness of auditory memory. Don't forget that the overwhelming majority (i.e. nearly all) of the reviews/impressions/comments thrown around on these forums do not have the objects of comparison properly level-matched.

 

If there is actually a difference it can be confirmed through measurement and we will see the culprit as noise, distortion, or frequency response deviations from what is correct. Plenty of affordable mainstream electronics are capable of getting it correct in these measurements (i.e. flat FR, imperceptible noise/distortion), but it wouldn't surprise me if a piece of hi-fi gear deviated significantly to deliver that "sparkly high-end" or "lush mids."


Edited by 3X0 - 4/12/12 at 10:47am
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post #8882 of 9141
4/12/12 at 2:52pm
Yes many measure fantastic and sound awfull while other sound fantastic but measure less than great. I know which one I want ....
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post #8883 of 9141
4/12/12 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nc8000 View Post

Yes many measure fantastic and sound awfull


Example?

 

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post #8884 of 9141
4/12/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallan View Post
All modern upsteam components sound the same???  What information, I have heard tons of different upstream combo, they all sound different!  Where are you hearing this stuff?


To return to this question, here is a small subset of a large number of published literature on this topic:

 

Masters, Ian G. and Clark, D. L., "Do All CD Players Sound the Same?", Stereo Review, pp.50-57 (January 1986)
 
Pohlmann, Ken C., "6 Top CD Players: Can You Hear the Difference?", Stereo Review, pp.76-84 (December 1988)
 
Pohlmann, Ken C., "The New CD Players, Can You Hear the Difference?", Stereo Review, pp.60-67 (October 1990)
 
CD Player Comparison, The Sensible Sound, # 75, Jun/Jul 1999. 
 
CD Player Comparison, The Sensible Sound, # 74, Apr/May 1999.
 
Moore, BCJ. An Introduction to the Psychology of Hearing, Fourth Edition. San Diego: Academic Press, 1997.
 
David Rich and Peter Aczel, 'Topological Analysis of Consumer Audio Electronics: Another Approach to Show that Modern Audio Electronics 
are Acoustically Transparent,' 99 AES Convention, 1995, Print #4053. 
 
Tom Nousaine, ' The Great Debate: Is Anyone Winning?' Proceedings of the AES, 8th International Conference, 1990. 
 
Masters, Ian G. 'Do All Amplifiers Sound the Same?' Stereo Review, Jan 1987, pg 78-84. 
 
Baxandall, Peter J. 'Audible Amplifier Distortion is not a Mystery, Wireless World, Nov 1977, pg 63-66. 
 
Colloms, Martin 'Amplifier Tests on Test-2, The Panel Game,' Hi-Fi News & Record Review, Nov 1978, pg 114-117. 
 
Hope, Adrian 'Amplifier Tests on Test-1, Without Prejudice,' Hi-Fi News& Record Reviewe, Nov 1978, pg 110-113. 
 
Walker, P. J. 'Positive Feedback: Rational Amplifier Testing,' Hi-Fi News & Record Review, Jul 1977, pg 135. 
 
Greenhill, L. & Clark, D. 'Equipment Profile,' Audio, Apr 1985, pg 56-60, 82-97. 
 
Holman, Tomlinson 'Amplifier Design & Sound Quality,' Audio, Nov 1996, pg 26-31. 
 
Rich, David, 'Reasonably Priced Pre amplifiers for the Reasonable Audiophiles,' The Audio Critic, #18, Spring/Summer 1992. 
 
Amp Tests, Boston Audio Society Speaker, Vol 21, No.2, pg 18-20, Sep 1997.
 
As for statistical significance, experiments with sample sizes in excess of 500 confirm no difference. There has been no literature suggesting differences under properly controlled settings. The challenge has been left unanswered by audiophiles for the past couple of decades. Publishing contrary results are as simple as submitting a paper to http://www.aes.org/ (plenty of good literature on the topic here as well).
 
Put simply, the gentleman with the JH13s and a Clip or Shuffle is doing a much better job than the gentleman with lower-end IEMs and a HiFiMan.
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post #8885 of 9141
4/12/12 at 6:57pm


How about a high end IEM and a Hifiman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post



To return to this question, here is a small subset of a large number of published literature on this topic:

 

Masters, Ian G. and Clark, D. L., "Do All CD Players Sound the Same?", Stereo Review, pp.50-57 (January 1986)
 
Pohlmann, Ken C., "6 Top CD Players: Can You Hear the Difference?", Stereo Review, pp.76-84 (December 1988)
 
Pohlmann, Ken C., "The New CD Players, Can You Hear the Difference?", Stereo Review, pp.60-67 (October 1990)
 
CD Player Comparison, The Sensible Sound, # 75, Jun/Jul 1999. 
 
CD Player Comparison, The Sensible Sound, # 74, Apr/May 1999.
 
Moore, BCJ. An Introduction to the Psychology of Hearing, Fourth Edition. San Diego: Academic Press, 1997.
 
David Rich and Peter Aczel, 'Topological Analysis of Consumer Audio Electronics: Another Approach to Show that Modern Audio Electronics 
are Acoustically Transparent,' 99 AES Convention, 1995, Print #4053. 
 
Tom Nousaine, ' The Great Debate: Is Anyone Winning?' Proceedings of the AES, 8th International Conference, 1990. 
 
Masters, Ian G. 'Do All Amplifiers Sound the Same?' Stereo Review, Jan 1987, pg 78-84. 
 
Baxandall, Peter J. 'Audible Amplifier Distortion is not a Mystery, Wireless World, Nov 1977, pg 63-66. 
 
Colloms, Martin 'Amplifier Tests on Test-2, The Panel Game,' Hi-Fi News & Record Review, Nov 1978, pg 114-117. 
 
Hope, Adrian 'Amplifier Tests on Test-1, Without Prejudice,' Hi-Fi News& Record Reviewe, Nov 1978, pg 110-113. 
 
Walker, P. J. 'Positive Feedback: Rational Amplifier Testing,' Hi-Fi News & Record Review, Jul 1977, pg 135. 
 
Greenhill, L. & Clark, D. 'Equipment Profile,' Audio, Apr 1985, pg 56-60, 82-97. 
 
Holman, Tomlinson 'Amplifier Design & Sound Quality,' Audio, Nov 1996, pg 26-31. 
 
Rich, David, 'Reasonably Priced Pre amplifiers for the Reasonable Audiophiles,' The Audio Critic, #18, Spring/Summer 1992. 
 
Amp Tests, Boston Audio Society Speaker, Vol 21, No.2, pg 18-20, Sep 1997.
 
As for statistical significance, experiments with sample sizes in excess of 500 confirm no difference. There has been no literature suggesting differences under properly controlled settings. The challenge has been left unanswered by audiophiles for the past couple of decades. Publishing contrary results are as simple as submitting a paper to http://www.aes.org/ (plenty of good literature on the topic here as well).
 
Put simply, the gentleman with the JH13s and a Clip or Shuffle is doing a much better job than the gentleman with lower-end IEMs and a HiFiMan.


 

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post #8886 of 9141
4/12/12 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmiamihk View Post


How about a high end IEM and a Hifiman?



 



By "lower-end IEMs" I meant any IEM that is not at the level of the JH13.

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post #8887 of 9141
4/12/12 at 7:38pm


Most customs should be at that level?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post



By "lower-end IEMs" I meant any IEM that is not at the level of the JH13.



 

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post #8888 of 9141
4/12/12 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmiamihk View Post

Most customs should be at that level?


 

Uh, no. The following would surely be ranked below a 13 on a technical level:

JH5, 7, 10, 11 

UE11...maybe below, I don't know. The UERM would probably be considered equal to the 13.

ES1, ES2, ES3 

ACS T2, T3

 

In other words, only the flagship or good-enough-for-production-engineers (e.g. UERM) would be at the JH13's "level". There's only a handful of such products in the world, no?

 

3X0: to be fair, you still owe bmiamihk a straight answer. JH13+Clip may be better than Lesser IEM + HM 801, but you've changed both variables. What of "High end"/JH13 + HM 801 vs JH13 + Clip?

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post #8889 of 9141
4/12/12 at 7:57pm

Stock 801 amp sucks.  I had to plug in my UHA6S to hear what the 801 DAC could even do.

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post #8890 of 9141
4/12/12 at 8:01pm

Ok well the JH13 is a lot better then  a stock earphone by a large degree but going from say a JH7 to JH13 will not be that much greater right? How about JH7 and a Hifiman compared to a Clip and the JH13?

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post #8891 of 9141
4/12/12 at 8:15pm

^ You've got a JH13 right? I remember you commenting on 13 vs SE530 / 535 a few pages back.

If that's the case, why did you choose a 13 over a 7, given that you're expressing doubt on how much better a 13 is? It's also not simply a question on technical ability--a 7 is the bassier cousin of JH5, and both are said to be warm sounding, but the 13 is widely described as neutral with a slight bass bump.

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post #8892 of 9141
4/12/12 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_C View Post

 the 13 is widely described as neutral with a slight bass bump.


and treble

 

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post #8893 of 9141
4/12/12 at 8:26pm

When I looked into a JH I was able to demo the 13 and I was looking for more bass.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_C View Post

^ You've got a JH13 right? I remember you commenting on 13 vs SE530 / 535 a few pages back.

If that's the case, why did you choose a 13 over a 7, given that you're expressing doubt on how much better a 13 is? It's also not simply a question on technical ability--a 7 is the bassier cousin of JH5, and both are said to be warm sounding, but the 13 is widely described as neutral with a slight bass bump.



 

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post #8894 of 9141
4/12/12 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post


and treble

 


Really? Never noticed that...


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmiamihk View Post

When I looked into a JH I was able to demo the 13 and I was looking for more bass.


So what's stopping you from consider a 16 instead?

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post #8895 of 9141
4/12/12 at 9:02pm


I might try it out but I have been trying out some other customs at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_C View Post


Really? Never noticed that...


 


So what's stopping you from consider a 16 instead?



 

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