JH Audio JH-13 PRO appreciation thread - Page 578

Started a new thread for those who would like to contribute their JHA experiences.  All opinions welcome.  I think it would be beneficial to both JHA and potential customers.  Might also help remove some clutter.

It appears that the JH13 will no longer be available with the JH-3A. I wonder what this means for those customers who ordered JH-3A's with JH13's?

You can read about this one their facebook page here.

This was posted:

"By now, most of you have probably heard that JHAudio has decided not to offer the JH3A with the JH13.  After much testing and tuning, Jerry has found that the JH16 circuit works best for optimal detail and accuracy out of the amp.  The 13 circuit just didn't match up.  When turned down, the 16 circuit is only 2db of boost at 5oHz.  (The passive 13 has a built in boost of 6dB at 50Hz.)  

With the amp + 16 combination, you have the ability to have the lows much lower than the 13 and much higher than the 16.  This circuit is accurate to 23k, so everyone should be able to set the bass to their preference.  "

This is an interesting development.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidVictory 

It appears that the JH13 will no longer be available with the JH-3A. I wonder what this means for those customers who ordered JH-3A's with JH13's?

 

You can read about this one their facebook page here.

 

This was posted:

 

"By now, most of you have probably heard that JHAudio has decided not to offer the JH3A with the JH13.  After much testing and tuning, Jerry has found that the JH16 circuit works best for optimal detail and accuracy out of the amp.  The 13 circuit just didn't match up.  When turned down, the 16 circuit is only 2db of boost at 5oHz.  (The passive 13 has a built in boost of 6dB at 50Hz.)  

 

With the amp + 16 combination, you have the ability to have the lows much lower than the 13 and much higher than the 16.  This circuit is accurate to 23k, so everyone should be able to set the bass to their preference.  "

 

This is an interesting development.

That sucks - I was planning to do the upgrade once I'd saved enough money.  I have so many IEM that it's not a problem if I mod the JH13 to only use them with the 3A system.  But I really don't want to spend the extra $700-800 to get another IEM to go with the 3A.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parrots 

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict 

That sucks - I was planning to do the upgrade once I'd saved enough money.  I have so many IEM that it's not a problem if I mod the JH13 to only use them with the 3A system.  But I really don't want to spend the extra $700-800 to get another IEM to go with the 3A.

 

Rather then just get the amp for you're old customs you can always sell those and get the package and it will work out around the same so you won't be spending anymore then you would have for just the amp and you get a nee set of customs.

From a message someone received, those who have ordered the 13's with the amp can still go with it or upgrade to the 16's at no charge.

Really?  How much are used JH13 going for these days?

I had the opportunity to borrow a JH13 demo unit for a few days and thought I'd post my impressions here, even though it's an appreciation thread and they're not entirely favorable. Sadly I didn't have enough time to do the kind of in-depth comparisons to my favorite universals, that would have warranted a full review. All in all I got only about 15 hours of listening time at home and one commute cycle from/to work, so to those who think that's insufficient, just feel free to disregard my conclusions.

Getting a decent seal on the JH13-D was pretty straightforward, even though the nozzle is a bit short and the shells are larger than most universals. I used UE silicon tips as shown in the picture, decored Shure foam tips (olives) and a combination of both that involved turning the silicons inside out and mounting the olives onto their stem. Sound signature and quality didn't vary much with tips and isolation was about on par with my Westones W4 and olives.

First thing that struck me after putting them in, was how bassy they are. From casual reading I thought these were supposed to be flat, with the JH16 being the basshead version, but I instantly knew that these would have more than sufficient bass for my taste. But more on that later. Next thought, wow the mids are extremely rich and smooth with ample detail, kinda like the SM3 mids minus their thickness in the lower range. Easily one of the best quality mids I've heard, but just like the SM3's (or SE530's) rather in-your-face. First impression on highs, well these are not exactly laid-back like the SM3's or rolled off like the SE530's, lol, remind me more of the CK10, albeit with a slightly fuller note. Will be interesting to hear if sibilance is going to be a problem.

First impression on soundstage, sad to say: disappointing. I'm a big soundstage junkie and the JH13 had been recommended to me for having one of the best among customs, but it didn't take more than a few minutes to realize that these would decidedly fall short of my expectations. Width seemed quite ok, if still not up to an EX1000 or FX700, but depth appeared to be strangely lacking. I switched among different tips to no avail. On the other hand, separation of instruments struck me as impeccable, but all of it seemed to be presented next to each other almost on a 2D plane, a few feet in front of my nose. Hmmm...

So after this mixed first feelings I started going back and forth between the JH13-D and my favorite universals, mainly the W4, FI-BA-SS, FX700 and EX600 (in lack of my loaned out EX1000). Kept doing that for several days and in total about 15 hours and sent them back yesterday. I decided not to buy the JH13, even though they surpass any of my universals in some aspects. But overall I concluded that they'd be more a sidegrade than a real upgrade for my taste. That's my personal conclusion, nothing more, nothing less.

Bass: I thought these were flat but they're not. There's a pronounced emphasis on mid-bass that drowns out most of the deep bass. Even though my FI-BA-SS are single BAs and roll off earlier below 30Hz, they have better deep bass with dubstep and electronica. On Tek One's "Broken String" bass peak is about 50Hz higher than where it should be. Same goes for James Blake's "The Wilhelm Scream". The W4 have significantly less bass quantity than the JH13-D, but are more linear and better suited for this kind of music. Now don't get me wrong, the JH13-D's bass quality is actually very good and impressively dynamic for BAs, but sadly there's that hump that spoils the party for me. ymmv. Side note: I let dfkt listen to these and he confimed my findings. Then he pulled out his Digizoid ZO and surprisingly enough that little thing managed to shift the JH13-D's bass signature more towards deep bass without noticable degradation of sound quality. Impressive.

Mids: one word, glorious! These are phones for mids lovers and a worthy upgrade to the SE530 and I'd say even to the SM3, if you love their richness but don't want the thickness that goes with it. They have fascinating detail resolution and you can hear every nuance of singers pursing their lips, fingers sliding along guitar strings, things like that. All these sounds manage to stay meticulously separated, even when there's a lot going on, to a point where it starts getting slightly detrimental for a holistic presentation. And mind you, these are in-your-face, it almost feels like they're showing off how good they are. If you like the W4's understatement or the EX1000's rather mellow and subtle mids presentation, these are not for you.

Highs: very good presence and extension and rather different to the phones I compared the JH13s with. Like I said they remind me most likely of a CK10 with a bit more weight, but have some of the same splashiness that makes them not entirely relaxing to listen to. The FI-BA-SS in all their unbridled rawness are even more clear and sometimes aggressive, but surprisingly less fatiguing to my ears. They're also less prone to sibilance, even though this is no big problem on the JH13-D either. Coincidentally I found a recent post with pretty similar impressions in another thread. Yet overall I haven't really much to complain about the JH13-D's treble, except that in my book the treble on high-end dynamic drivers (think EX1000, FX700) seems a bit more favorable to portraying natural timbre of acoustic instruments than that of BAs. Personal preference, of course.

Now for an odd point: I found the JH13-D to lack subtlety. Let me explain, I already said about mids that they seem a bit like they're showing off, and much of the same is going on about bass and treble, so overall I more than once found myself overwhelmed by what was fed into my ears all at the same time. A bit like being in a gourmet restaurant and getting all four courses shoved down your throat at the same time. Exaggerated, but you get the picture. On Jane Taylor's "Old Friends" the delicate guitar accompaniment was too obtrusive and distracting from her voice, and that's only one example. All that seems to be exacerbated by a distinctive lack of soundstage depth, so vocals and instrument all seem to be very close and competing with each other. Tbo, all universals I compared the JH13-D to, struck me as more subtle in their presentation. I know that assessment isn't very flattering and I'm prepared to get shot down in flames for it, but that's what my ears told me.

Well, to make an already too long story short, the soundstage didn't open up with further listening and even though some aspects of the JH13 demo unit struck me as extremely impressive, I didn't regret having to send my loaner back yesterday and didn't feel an urge to order the custom version. I obviously have no way of knowing, whether my experience would have been significantly better with the full custom JH13, therefore I don't feel entitled to comment on it or give any recommendation.

Next week I'll hopefully get an IERM demo version, so we'll see about whether I'll end up going custom in the end, or not...

al explained by being demos, deep bass with customs comes from bone conduction, which you would be missing with the universal and they have probably bumped up the bass to account for that, each custom is usually tuned to your ear shape to match the response of your canals, again missing. but hey you can have your opinion, doesnt change what i hear. critical reviews of the universals are fairly much meaningless to me. all the time in the world will not change these facts

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp 

al explained by being demos, deep bass with customs comes from bone conduction, which you would be missing with the universal and they have probably bumped up the bass to account for that, each custom is usually tuned to your ear shape to match the response of your canals, again missing. but hey you can have your opinion, doesnt change what i hear. critical reviews of the universals are fairly much meaningless to me. all the time in the world will not change these facts

Well, I'm obviously not addressing senior members, who already have their own JH13 customs and are firmly rooted in their personal experiences.

But hopefully posting my impressions will be helpful to less experienced members, who are finding themselves in a similar situation as myself, contemplating about going custom (wondering whether it's worth to shell out a grand and go through the hassle of ear impressions, wait and possible re-fits), who are scouring the threads and who possibly can't get their hands on a demo unit themselves. Ideally they may have already heard a few universals that I've reviewed, can somewhat relate to my impressions and know that I don't get a kick out of hyping or bashing gear.

Btw, demo units are made and handed out in order to persuade prospective customers that the final product will be worth it. If they fail to achieve that goal, it shouldn't be seen as the prospective customer's fault.

I certainly agree, no one should buy the JH13 universals instead of other high end universal IEMs.  Given that even Jerry agrees with that, evidenced by the fact that JH13 Universals aren't for sale, I think it's 'not all that useful to even state it.  What you get from listening to the universals is a way to get some idea of what to expect prior to spending the money.  

Interesting impressions. I think Music_4321's argument is compelling, namely that if demos didn't give a reasonably close (not perfect, but reasonably close) approximation of how customs sound then there would be no purpose for a company to offer them.

Be that as it may, there's a large gulf between the JH13 customs and the JH13 universals.  I'm honestly surprised of reports of other customs where that isn't true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 

Well, I'm obviously not addressing senior members, who already have their own JH13 customs and are firmly rooted in their personal experiences.

 

But hopefully posting my impressions will be helpful to less experienced members, who are finding themselves in a similar situation as myself, contemplating about going custom (wondering whether it's worth to shell out a grand and go through the hassle of ear impressions, wait and possible re-fits), who are scouring the threads and who possibly can't get their hands on a demo unit themselves. Ideally they may have already heard a few universals that I've reviewed, can somewhat relate to my impressions and know that I don't get a kick out of hyping or bashing gear.

 

Btw, demo units are made and handed out in order to persuade prospective customers that the final product will be worth it. If they fail to achieve that goal, it shouldn't be seen as the prospective customer's fault.

hahaha :D what are you saying James?

nah look i really dont argue with what you heard, its just that it really isnt possible to make a universal that sounds like the real thing and critically reviewing and evaluating a unit that is not and never will be production with these issues in mind; doesnt make a lot of sense to me, I realize that is what you do mate and do quite well i might add, but its not really the hat you should be wearing in this circumstance imo. A lot of people want/need to hear something before they shell out the coin (well i didnt, but people do) so the manufacturers are placed in a difficult position, get pressure from potential customers and distributors to supply a unit that you know isnt really an accurate representation of the real thing, or dont and risk losing sales and market penetration

the sound relies on form, particularly in relation to the areas you touched on. i can see how the universal could sound exactly how you describe, the low bass in the custom has a slight bump, but below this is even lower bass that is mainly transmitted by bone conduction (not possible with universals no matter how much R&D went into it), this is tuned for the individual to blend together into a seamless response. however with the universals you will miss the very low bass from 15-40hz, but will get the bump at about 50hz, making them sound a bit incoherent and bassy. strange that a lack of bass could make something sound bassy, but am i making sense? its the first time ive really thought about it.

these 2 factors, low bass missing, highs borderline uncomfortable and low mid-bass through mids in focus would make the sound quite forward and we know what happens to soundstage in those circumstances, it falls to pieces

we all know how closely related sibilance is to fit. the tweeters in jh13 are perched like pincers at the very tip of the canal, one would assume they are very carefully placed in the individual's canal and directed in such a way as to avoid sibilance occurring

believe me, i have nothing invested in needing these to sound great anymore, they just do. ive had enough bad juju with jha lately to sour almost anyt warm fuzziness and longing i had to have them bsck, but the simple fact is, i finally got my replacement jh13 back today after 4 months and despite all that went on, i still love them to bits, despite being fully ready to convince myself to sell them and get es5

I've heard some complains about the JH13-D and the JH16-D.. Maybe the custom demos has less space to accommodate the BA drivers, and they need to use smaller tubes for the Mids and Bass drivers? I don't know...

I love the ZO with my JH13s :)
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 

 

. Then he pulled out his Digizoid ZO and surprisingly enough that little thing managed to shift the JH13-D's bass signature more towards deep bass without noticable degradation of sound quality. Impressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmappita 

I'v head some complains about the JH13-D and the JH16-D.. Maybe the custom demos has less space to accommodate the BA drivers, and they need to use smaller tubes for the Mids and Bass drivers? I don't knwo...

see my post above