And it is after all, a global market. And Head-Fi is a global forum.
post #3001 of 9141
8/7/09 at 1:38am
I've spent time with a Piccolino Livewires cable and an HD600 cable made by stevenkelby - the LW cable's detail and transparency surpassed a silver plated copper cable, a Cardas 33g silver wire, and a JL cryo cable for LW. The HD600 cable was more transparent and spacious than my APS v3 cable. Those were loaners but I own a stevenkelby Piccolino iMod/iPhone LOD and I think it beats my ALO Jumbo Cryo Silver X iMod LOD. I actually use it more than my portable Vcap dock when mobile. If it weren't for the high cost I would have bought all the Piccolino cables.
I understand where you're coming from, but still feel that spleisher's description of JH's current backlogged status makes their inconsistent communication much more understandable.
It really seems that they simply did not expect this kind of initial volume of orders. If they had, I'm sure they would have made sure they had the appropriate infrastructure to be able to handle it.
I mean, a couple of pages back we were talking about how there are a number of owners of the JH13 that are 16 years old. If you'd asked Jerry prior to the launch whether he expected that he would be getting orders from that demographic, I bet you he would have laughed.
These are professional custom monitors. The % of buyers that would have come from head-fi a few years ago would probably have been a small fraction of his total sales. Wouldn't be surprised if that % has increased by 500% or more since he designed the UE10pro.
Obviously he would've seen there was 'some' market for his products, but I don't think anyone would've figured there would be such a deep one so quickly. You can bet that there are competitors out there that are noticing this and there will eventually be greater competition as a result.
I said much earlier in this thread that I was sorta concerned that people would fail to realize that this is a boutique audio company we're talking about here- not a mass manufacturer of standardized products. That's the downside of such rapid market expansion.
hmmm, just noticed that we're now into this 3000 posts deep and it's very hard to extract folks impressions so i've taken a stab at it (i'll try to do some degree of maintenance but i'm bound to miss posts, especially since i've upcoming downtime from head-fi). folks, i've not included every impression written by everyone here (try not to take offense and please don't shoot the messenger), but this will give someone, in a rather concise manner without having to read this entire thread, a good feel for different users take on this highly acclaimed product:
I could make out a world of difference between a UM3X and an ES3X that wasn't even mine. So yup.
Forgive me but that IS an exaggeration -- perhaps our definition of 'world' is quite different --, even if your alleged hearing was as good as that of a sniffer dog's sense of smell. Or simply the UM3X set you tried was defective.
This is going back to my example of the Beatles, and the different wording/ expressions used to describe how much we may like them, even when the liking may be on a similar level.
Your comment will make some people think that the UM3X & ES3X are really THAT different when I think they are NOT as different you make them out to be -- and I own both. So, if I don't agree with you then there's something wrong with MY hearing, perhaps not as refined/ developed as yours? Could there be something wrong with your description skills? Is that a possibility too?
And as for whether Beatles are the best band ever? Technically? No.
No-one here was discussing whether they are/ have been the best band ever, or the best ever technically.
But for the effects and marks they have left on the world, you can easily put them at the top.
That already is a well established fact - and not many people would dispute that.
Music/interpretation may be subjective to individual, but if you can analyse how the band works, how consistent they are, their song-writing abilities, their tightness, their intonation, and the list goes on, you can say that Beatles were amazing for their time and their song-writing till now is one of the best.
Again, that is a well established fact, and we were not discussing the Beatles merits.
So if you want to go about subjective stuff, the arguments can last forever. But if you work on the details and what is truly objective and spend time doing it and actually realise that there are things which are objective and obvious hard facts, then you'll understand what I'm talking about.
I don't know who you're addressing here, but facts are facts and not just in music, btw, but in many other spheres. The same goes for being subjective. Basically nothing new there. I think your claim "I could make out a world of difference between a UM3X and an ES3X" is not exactly a good example of objectivity.
That's something for everyone to think about, especially on this forum.
I believe the importance of objectivity & subjectivity is MUCH more important in many places outside this forum.
Anyway regarding skeptics, I truly believe that skeptics should try everything that they don't believe in because you won't know till you try. I usually don't trust others' opinions, so therefore I try things. And usually because I try things I end up buying them because I realise that they do work, amazingly well for me if I may add.
I think it's quite obvious most people would try different gear if they could -- specially expensive gear --, but they simply can't, not avalable wherever they happen to live. And I would even say that is not an opinion but pretty much a fact. Not everyone has Jaben round the corner, lives in LA, NYC, Chicago, or London, etc. And even in some of these places you cannot try a lot of high end gear, or even the 'cheap' UM3X, W3, Triple.fi, SE530. How many people, apart from the Jaben community in Singapore, can try customs or other high-end IEM's for instance?
And regarding all the things about musicianship and ears and all. Yes, everyone, including the old-timers here at Head-Fi do have different levels of audio sensitivity and level of abilities. It's something that is natural, like musicianship and taste. So until you can hear the difference for yourself, you can feel free to hold back on your spending, or just wait till your ears hear it, if it can ever hear it.
Seems there are more than a handful people out there who don't need to hear the differences you talk about or wait to ever be able to hear said differences -- they've just gone right ahead and ordered the JH13's
I can appreciate what you are saying about W3 vs JH13Pro. I'll break part of my silence in advance of my 3-flagship review to talk about JH13Pro vs W3. Sorry Sinocelt, you still have to wait for the review...
Switching to my W3 with UM56 custom tips, after using the JH13Pro and the IE8, I hear no "sizzle" (only slight zing) with my W3, but I can get some "zing" to it with single flange silicone tips. It's amazing what these UM56 custom tips to for the W3 sound, and they bring the W3 highs closer to sounding "magically smoothed out". And I agree, the JH13Pro need no smoothing out, as there is no edge nor anything missing.
Nevertheless, where I hear the biggest differences are in the deep bass peak of the JH13Pro (50Hz) vs the mid/upper bass peak of the W3, where the power and impact are increased with the JH13Pro without artificially coloring the sound (psychoacousticly almost felt more than heard).
The next is the somewhat smaller soundstage of the W3 - it's like the difference you hear when switching between listening to HD600 single ended vs HD600 balanced. I used to think of the W3 soundstage as large before I got several high end customs, now I consider it good but not the best. In a similar example, I also used to think of the Woo WA6 amp as having a big soundstage till I heard the same phones on the balanced WA22 and EC ZDT amps. Seems like there is always something better to replace your previous "best".
The next big difference with the JH13Pro is in the detail and transparency, especially in complex musical passages where the JH13Pro almost sound as if there is one dedicated driver per instrument with reproduction of the utmost clarity and resolution. While in comparison to such high-end customs the W3 almost seem to blend the sounds all together.
By the way, I know that it does kinda suck to send e-mail and get nothing in reply. I do understand how people are feeling. Communication is important in business, without a doubt. I'm just giving JH a pass on it, because I know they really do want to communicate better, but they literally just can't. They're great people (hospitable, friendly, etc.) I've been there, and I've seen it, for what it's worth.