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Equalizer update - Page 5

post #61 of 165
5/2/04 at 12:51am
Thanks for the reply. I just have a pair of Grado SR60s with comfy pads, so I'm just looking for general guidance, and I can fly by ear from there.

The HD600 curve has been so awesome for me with the HD580s that I was anxious to try one of your curves with another headphone. I actually like the SR60s, but I don't doubt your insights one bit, and of course the EQed HD580s smoke the SR60s pretty badly so they are not getting so much use anymore. I guess what you are saying is to the effect that the hardware of the Grados, with its resonances and earpad design and whatnot, is more limiting in terms of what EQ can do for it -- the EQ upside of the HD580s is likely much higher.

If I recall you have Gradofan's SR325s? I am persuaded by others' posts that those may have a peaky midrange resonance due to the extended length of the chamber as compared to the SR225 and lower models, which don't seem to have the same large midrange resonance. The headroom FR graphs seem to corroborate this pretty strongly. If you have a different analysis that would be interesting.

And it's always fund reading about your subwoofers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerG
....Incidentally, I only have Grados around because Gradofan loaned me his to try out. My motivation is to figure out why I don't get along with their products....

I agree on your assessment of the evolution in performance offered by the digital EQ. I have tried to listen to my other systems, but they all sound either dead, peaky, bassless, or all of the above. I need to punch some of the curves into the dbx so that I can use my Sony player. Unfortunately no upsampled digital output.

gerG
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post #62 of 165
8/28/04 at 1:32am
Thread Starter 
dig dig dig dig CLANK..... whoa, look at this prehistoric thread!

Actually this is a serious update. The DEQ 2496 is still the most important component in my headphone system. It is so essential that I bought another one. This one is a permanent resident one of the downstairs systems. It will provide conditioned digital signal (via AES/EBU cables) to the patio, deck, and garage. Source is a Sony 333es. Some day I hope to add upsampling to the mix, but it is pretty good right now. This setup allows me to select a headphone curve, load some CDs, and connect to the other end of the cable with a Grace 901 amp.

Enough trivia, and on to a very important discovery. I knew that the DEQ would stream all settings as a data block over the midi interface. It made sense that connecting a twin unit via midi and setting it up to receive would make direct transfer of all 20 some EQ curves possible. Amazingly it was even easier than that. I connected the "out" port of the old unit to the "in" port of the new one. In the utilities menu there is a "dump all" function. I pressed that one, took one sip of scotch, and the units were synchronized. It probably helped that the scotch was a single malt from Islay, so be advised.

Now all I do is choose the cans, select the curve, head outside with Grace and cans, hit play on the RF remote, and watch the sun set to tunes. Not a bad way to end a rough week. Highly recommended.


gerG

edit: boooring, needs a picture



and




edit: downsized photos again. Sorry about that.
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post #63 of 165
8/29/04 at 6:23am
Wow... I don't know whats better, the setup, or the view...

Ha! I do really... who needs headphones, with a view like that? nice

The trouble for me, with EQ, is that its hard to be consistent, i'm one of these really annoying people that keeps tweaking, and tweaking and tweaking ad infinitum...

Although, you say that it can adjust itself... hmm... tempting
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post #64 of 165
8/29/04 at 1:00pm
Thread Starter 
Hi Duncan. The views are one of the main reasons that I live here. Pictures can't do it justice. Well, my pictures can't anyway.

The auto eq function does not work well with headphones. I have never gotten good results. The simplest approach is to pick up the Behringer mic, tweak levels for near flat response, and adjust by ear from there. I try for smooth curves, so there are no bands way out of line with their neighbors. That eliminates most of the fiddling right there.

As for relentless tweaking, well, there is a bit of that, but as you close in on the sound that you are after, it becomes less and less. The one thing that I still do with most of my headphones is listen for a while without the eq, then switch it into the loop. I am looking for a positive effect across the entire spectrum. Headphones do change with time, and this is a way of checking it. I also do the reverse on occasion for the same reason. The improvement with the eq is always amazing.


gerG
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post #65 of 165
8/29/04 at 2:03pm
Excellent view gerG and excellent info. One of these days, I'm going to have to pick up a 2496 for home. BTW, the view looks familiar. My brother and Dad both live in North Scottsdale off of Pinnacle Peak Rd.
Cheers!
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post #66 of 165
8/29/04 at 4:01pm
Thread Starter 
KW, good to hear from you. Excellent spotting on the view. Those are the McDowells, and North Scottsdale is on the other side. That is my view to the west. Here is what it looks like to the east:



Or a less gearcentric shot:



gerG
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post #67 of 165
9/14/04 at 3:57pm

Headphone Equalization Procedure

I just ordered a DEQ2496. I am planning placing it in the signal path before the Grace901/HD650 (digital) as well as a pair of Stax 4040s (analog).

My question is, what is the best procedure to perform headphone equalization? I though I read somewhere that you actually place a small mic next to your ear while listening to the target headphones? Is there actually a suitable mic with an acceptable form-factor for that use?
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post #68 of 165
9/14/04 at 4:08pm
Why do you want to trust a microphone for EQ? I can understand the reason to do it out of academic interest but really - use your ears and set it so that it sounds good and sounds right.

No offense but you really have to stop looking at the technical aspect of things and get on with enjoying the music...isnt that why we are all here?

I have the Behringer too (thanks gerg ) and I love it. Used my ears and use my ears everytime I need to tweak it.

Fantastic piece of gear!!
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post #69 of 165
9/14/04 at 4:45pm

Tech junkie needs fix

Why measure?
"When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge of it is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind..." - Sir William Thompson, Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)

"..isn't that why we're all here?"
That's not (the only) reason I'm here. I enjoy the tinkering as much as the music. I need my technology "fix".

Jim
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post #70 of 165
9/14/04 at 11:15pm
I'm poor so i grabbed a BSR EQ3000 for fun on the side - do you think this will do the trick? i hope it wont degrade the signal too much when i put it in the chain. it has a pink noise filter and a spectrum analyzer - eye and ear candy!
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post #71 of 165
9/14/04 at 11:36pm
How does it sound? Got a link to this piece of gear?

Cheers and welcome to the EQ group. This is the honest to goodness truth -

Spend a LOT of money buying expensive headphone cables, speaker cables, interconnects, amplifiers, headphones, power cables, power conditioners, damping blah blah blah - frustrating, expensive and you will notice that you are enjoying the music less and less.

Instead - get a good digital EQ like the behringer deq2496 and forget about everything else. Just nail an amp you like, headphones that you like, source that you like and put them all around the EQ.

The EQ has become the centerpiece of my setup. Nothing is changed...just minor tweaks to the EQ settings or selecting from several presets that I saved in memory according to the CD, Headphone, Amp

This is the way I want my music to be
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post #72 of 165
9/14/04 at 11:48pm
hmm cant find much about it - here's a reference to it, it seems to still be in use in someone's rig so take that for what it's worth -

http://www.audioholics.com/forums/sh...7190#post17190

i got it for $37 shipped last week, hopefully it will come tomorrow. we'll see how it sounds!
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post #73 of 165
9/15/04 at 12:03am
Thread Starter 
Hey Jim, welcome to team DEQ. I have to start with measurements. I have a very unreliable component in my listening chain (my brain) so measurements are the only way of getting consistent and reliable results. There are details of that process farther up in this thread, as well as that thread

I would love to get into a discussion on the topic, but I am cramped for time at the moment (in the middle of collecting engine data and trying to figure out wtf is going on in there). I will be back when I get some time (and sleep).


gerG
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post #74 of 165
9/15/04 at 12:03am
Regarding the BSR 3000 equalizer, I recently picked one up at Goodwill for $20. I did some research and found it was a decent 10 band equalizer that provides for +/- 15db at discrete frequencies, with the added benefit of having a built-in spectrum analyzer and pink noise generator. The pink noise generator can be used with the factory-supplied microphone * for positioning loudspeakers in a room for flattest bass response, equalizing each channel at a given listening position for flattest response, or even setting the recording bias adjustment on a cassette deck.

The BSR 3000 was also sold as the ADC model 315X after BSR was merged with ADC, or so I have read.

The BSR 3000 originally had a suggested retail price of $349, but I have an invoice for a second one I purchased off of eBay that shows that it was sold by DAK for $149. Anyon remember this mail order house that would advertise in audio and electronics magazines with closeout specials on electronics and other toys?

To my ear the BSR 3000 is a very clean sounding unit, so I was not surprised to read the specifications that it has a wide bandwith of 5 ~ 100,000 Hz. When it is switched out of the EQ mode, I can not detect that it is in the circuit of my tape monitor on my amplifier.

A couple of words of caution: First, the owner's manual warns against accidentally plugging in a headphone into the front panel microphone jack.

* Second, the only microphone that is safe to use with the BSR 3000 is the calibrated electret condenser microphone that came with the unit. Do not attempt to use a regular dynamic microphone with this equalizer. If you do, the owner's manual states that unit can be damaged.

Prices are all over the place for the BSR 3000. I paid $20 for a well used but working example at Goodwill, and $35 plus shipping for a very clean unit including the manual and the original microphone. I have seen these go on eBay for as little as $25 and as high as $155, so don't be fooled into paying too much.
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post #75 of 165
9/15/04 at 12:58am
Hmm not a good sign when it ends up being found on a vintage site -

http://www.oaktreeent.com/Stereo_EQ'S_And_Signal_Processors.htm
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