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Equalizer update - Page 4

post #46 of 165
4/11/04 at 4:55pm
Thread Starter 
ooheadsoo, it depends on your gear. The ideal place for the DEQ would be between the source and the preamp, upstream of the preamp. That allows the DEQ to run at full bit depth. Connecting it downstream will have you treading the line between reduced resolution (not using full bit range) and digital clipping (ugly). Since I use my dbx as a crossover, as well as an equalizer, it has to reside downstream of the preamp. I have to set the unit up to take advantage of the full signal range at my listening levels. Fortunately it has provisions to do that. I haven't found any such option in the Behringer.

A general note about 2.1 setups: be sure that you have some sort of high pass filter on the satellites. Most of the subs with built in amps have the low pass side covered, but the sats are allowed to run full range, or with a generic passive high pass that may not be at the frequency that you want.


gerG
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post #47 of 165
4/11/04 at 5:20pm
I added a "home made " "diy" sub to my system, so the monitors do indeed run full range. I think I may hold off on the eq until I decide if I'm happy enough with my system after I get the preamp I'm commited to getting.

I'm also committed to using more than one source (pc, cdp for sacd, and radio) so if i want to use the deq with all 3, it pretty much has to be downstream of my preamp.

How's the top end sound after you eq'd the senns? I'd always heard that problems in the FR of omission generally sound better than peaks, but I noticed that you eq'd the very top end of the spectrum up a bit.
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post #48 of 165
4/11/04 at 5:24pm
ooheadsoo, i think nhtpro also makes a sub that goes with the a-10. you might want to check that out, since it'll be more tonally similar to your current system. not to mention being matched in power capabilities. plus it'll have all the correct crossover values... not sure if your DIY has the proper crossovers.
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post #49 of 165
4/11/04 at 5:37pm
Hey Dean. Well...I'd get the nht sub if I had the dough...you know very well how much it costs! It's the same sub as yours. That's the only one they make. I'm fairly happy with my sub. It cost me a fraction how much the nht sub costs and the amp I bought to go with it has full phase control, so I think I have it matched fairly well. Sounds good to me, at least. I'm running 2 10" peerless $50 drivers in parallel stuck in a 130 liter or so cabinet.

Nht sells the same sub for both your a-20 and my a-10, so I don't see how it could match perfectly to both our systems since we supposedly have different F3 values. I think your F3 is 45hz and mine is 55hz.

I'll probably "upgrade" my sub in a few years. Probably peerless xls drivers and a ton of cabinet bracing and stuffing. New amp...you know, the works. I'm really pretty happy with the way it 's blending right now with the a-10's. It's not quite as tight as the bass on my senns, but it's good enough, and better in some ways.

I'd offer to bring it to the meet coming up, but it's just practically impossible, seeing as the sub cabinet is 3 feet tall and weighs like 100 lbs with the amp.
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post #50 of 165
4/11/04 at 5:37pm
THANK YOU, gerG. The DEQ2496 is amazing.

I'm printing out the HD600 settings and headin' upstairs. Well, maybe after my 3-year-old son quits making believe he is a gopher hiding in the closet.

I haven't tried the pink noise generator yet... I'll have to give that a shot when I'm not too busy listening to my favorite music with the best sound I've ever heard over a pair of headphones.

I've found my HD580s (I don't have the HD600s) seem to have the most unlimited post-EQ sound quality potential out of all of my headphones.

I'll use your SR325 settings as a rough guide for my SR60s.

What I have been doing is setting up graphic EQ curves particular for individual headphones and separate parametric curves for things like fine smooth improvements to bass, mid-bass, midrange, and treble, for particular recordings, cleaning up the XM radio distortion, and things of that nature.

Just my own little factoid, if it might be of use to someone, the DEQ2496 main analog output passes the main analog input through even when the power is turned off.... nice when you're just going to go to sleep or something.

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.
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post #51 of 165
4/11/04 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Hey Dean. Well...I'd get the nht sub if I had the dough...you know very well how much it costs! It's the same sub as yours. That's the only one they make.
heh he, fortunately for you, you're wrong. here's the one you want:

http://www.nhtpro.com/2004/products/...=1&ProductID=7

here's the one i use:

http://www.nhtpro.com/2004/products/...=1&ProductID=8

notice that yours is 1/3 the asking price.

start saving.

but you know, i dunno if gerG mentioned it before, but both this EQ and his Furman version both have automatic room adjustment functions right?--Greg? ...so, if you got this EQ, it'll let you tailor your setup to be truly flat. so, ooheadsoo, now that you got good monitors... this EQ could bring it to another level of listening experience.
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post #52 of 165
4/11/04 at 6:04pm
That sub is probably pretty cool for what it is. It goes with the M00 series satellites. Great names, huh? M00 and S00. It's their "multimedia" speakers that go for about $1000 for the satellites and sub ($250 per satellite.) The sub that you got was designed for both of our monitors

My sub goes down to basically 33hz before rolling off, so it's a better performer than the 8" sub that they have for $500! It's also like...7 times bigger I'm guesstimating this number by listening using a tone generator run off my m-audio revo, which admittedly has light bass. It might be better with a better soundcard.

Ultimately, unless I buy another system when I have my own place for the tv or some nonsense like that, I probably plan on upgrading to your a-20's and maybe going with the b-20 subwoofer too.

But yeah, the eq definitely sounds like something that would be really cool to play with!
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post #53 of 165
4/11/04 at 6:10pm
oh oops!!!--sorry man, i kept thinking you bought the m00's.... you actually got the a-10. hmm... yeah, k. heh he. sorry, my mistake.

but yeah, i'd like an eq this... it would help with acoustics.
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post #54 of 165
4/11/04 at 6:18pm
Hehe, it's easy to get confused cuz they discontinued the A-10's. My speakers basically look identical to yours except it uses a crappier woofer with foam surrounds and it doesn't have the foam tweeter waveguide. The amp has half the controls too.
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post #55 of 165
4/11/04 at 9:40pm
gerG --

I input your values for the HD600s into the DEQ2496 and gave a listen to my HD580s. I started with some Mozart piano concertos (I'm going through a Mozart piano concerto phase) and my feeling was "whoa." The woodwinds had such a natural sound it was uncanny. The sound overall sounded extremely natural. The sound was obviously much less colored than what I had come up with by ear when I A/Bed the two.

Next I listened to Joshua Redman's self-titled first CD (an acoustic jazz quartet). For this, your settings were about 2.5 db too bright in the mid-treble for my tastes. Specifically, the cymbals, high hats, etc., were a bit too strong. I took the treble down 2.5 db at 10,000 hertz with my paremetric EQ treble control (a 3-octave/bw control centered at 10,000 hertz has become my treble control of choice) and I had..... perfection (or something very close to it).

I am as a general rule finding I like a baseline curve for each headphone on the Graphic EQ, with separate additional variable tone controls set up on the parametric EQ, because I am finding it desirable to make obvious (to my ears) adjustments from recording to recording, or based on different types of music, with the parametric EQ.

Thanks again. This is as good as it gets.
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post #56 of 165
4/11/04 at 11:08pm
Thread Starter 
Oh man, there is so much fun stuff here that my head is spinning! (More than normal, I mean).

First, subwoofers. ooheadsoo, diy subs are the way to go. I have lost count of how many I have built over the years, and I design scads of them just for fun. The commercial subs will squeeze the most out of a small enclosure, but if you have the space, you can easily do better for less money. The Peerless XLS is on my to-do list, right after the JBL "Nuclear Sub" project that I am working on. I need something better than the Shoguns (the ones that broke my water lines and shifted one end of my house, do a search). It will be fun, maybe even fatal to any small animals in the area.

Another option is to connect the DEQ in a tape loop of your preamp. This will allow multiple sources, but will still run the processor at a relatively constant and high level.

Steve, I am glad that you are tweaking the levels. My curves are only a starting point. Also, I forgot to mention, my HD600 are not stock. They have a modification which has probably changed the response slightly. That will be the subject of another thread.

I chose to shelve the treble to match the average response of the Sens. All of those major fluctuations are due to interactions with my ears, as well as to the dimensions of the cans themselves. Although I know several of the sources, I don't try to compensate for those effects yet. As an experiment I would excourage equalizer pilots to change the level of the shelf to see what level of detail you like. Steve made a good call using cymbals as a reference.

gerG
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post #57 of 165
4/12/04 at 3:13am
Thanks for the vote of confidence, gerG! I think my sub sounds pretty decent, it just doesn't extend super low. But it DOES extend as low as I want it to extend. Rythmikaudio.com sells an inexpensive servo amp, perfect for you to try out if you have the inclination to use sealed in a small box. I don't think there's much doubt it'll sound better than a sunfire.

I'm eager to hear any impressions you may have if you ever get around to trying out your deq with your speaker rigs!
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post #58 of 165
4/12/04 at 12:12pm
Thanks for the EQ, gerG!
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post #59 of 165
5/1/04 at 10:11pm
gerG --

Are you posting a Grado curve anytime soon? I would dearly like to have one.

Your HD600 curve has been just wonderful for my HD580s. After taking down the treble a little, the level of fidelity I am getting is pretty much to the point where I just wouldn't know how to improve it any further. The sound is magnificent. My HD580s are now my most-used headphones by far.

I've also got my Bose QC2s sounding like real hi-fi (for when this noisy household gets, well, noisy). I'm pretty confident in the curve, I've been tweaking it for weeks, though it's just by ear. If anyone is interested, I'll be happy to post it, but I doubt anyone else has both the QC2s and the Behringer. I'm hesitant to admit I have both, because I don't want to give the Behringer a bad name by association.

Well, thanks once again. It really is hard to get the word out about the DEQ2496. I'm just about to give up myself. It's so hard to get across the nature of what you can do with it. I was at a point where my equipment was nice enough so that the stratoshperically expensive stuff was leaving me cold. Now I have a system that is infintely flexible and vastly improved in sound quality. If you've got nice equipment and you want the ultimate headphone system upgrade, this is it, IMHO. And it's FUN! It sure would be nice to have more people to share the experience with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerG
I will post more curves as I get them generated. My old mic was just a bit off, so I am reworking them all. Next up will be the DT931 and Grado SR325.

gerG
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post #60 of 165
5/2/04 at 12:29am
Thread Starter 
Hi Steve. Sorry, I got sidetracked by speaker projects. I think that I can do more with the Grados than just EQ. They have a resonance in the hf range that I think is caused by the reflected wave off the grill. If I can kill that it should eliminate that seashell effect that I always get with Grado headphones. The pads are the other problem. I have to get these things off my ears to clean up the highs, and my only method at the moment is to shim them with a set of Beyer DT931 pads. I will go ahead and test with that, but the curve will require adjusting for your setup.

Incidentally, I only have Grados around because Gradofan loaned me his to try out. My motivation is to figure out why I don't get along with their products.

A agree on your assessment of the evolution in performance offered by the digital EQ. I have tried to listen to my other systems, but they all sound either dead, peaky, bassless, or all of the above. I need to punch some of the curves into the dbx so that I can use my Sony player. Unfortunately no upsampled digital output.


gerG
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